Delorean DMC 12 PRV 12V even-fire engine update

[Florent]

Good afternoon to the LINK ECU Community, 

I'm french and a proud owner of a Delorean for 5years, I've dreamed of it since my childhood.

I do love it even with its original odd-fire PRV.

It's a late production car considered as an 83 model.

To help it being more efficient I've upgraded the original ignition ECU by a pertronix HEI module so I'm abble to provide 12v instead of 9v to the coil, good 8mm wires and plugs, I've set up the kjet with the help of a dwellmeter and monitor my airfuel ratio with an aem wideband, a free flow exhaust and I achieve a fuel consumption of 9l/100km which is pretty nice for an almost 40years old kjet 2.8l V6.

I'm not in a quest of performance but efficiency and ability to run e85 or mix, I don't want to touch the original engine and loom so I bought a younger 2.8 PRV 12s even-fire (from a 91 EFI Renault 25) and dressed it as a DMC PRV to use original AC comp., alternator, mounts, exhaust, clutch and WP, I did what is necessary to have cam sensor and crank position, I'll use duratec individual coils and modern injectors, I used fiveomotorsport in the past, and like price/quality.

I thought to Linkecu as engine management because a friend of mine runs a linkecu on its mk4 supra and is really enjoying it.

I need your help to know what Link ecu to use, and which electronic throttle to use with the ecu and what patterns is the best for the wheel of the cam position currently I have an half moon one but a friend of mine can realize any pattern I'd like.

I'd also like advise on the loom components but if you know someone who is used to build looms on link ecu in the north of France or in south UK I would consider spending some saves with him.

In the past I did several Honda builds, High comp, supercharger, turbo etc.... and always asked Romain Leveque help so I'm not experienced with mapping.

The project engine 

 

 

 

The car

[Adamw]

Our lowest cost ECU that supports electronic throttle directly is the Xtreme.  It may also be worth considering the Fury which is very similar except also has a built-in wideband lambda controller (the Xttreme would need to use an external wideband controller).  I would expect full time closed loop lambda will be an advantage to you if economy is the goal.

For the trigger system, the half moon cam wheel will be good (half moon must use a hall effect or optical sensor), for the crank you want a missing tooth wheel, 24-1, 36-1 or 36-2 would be my suggestion.  Sensor can be reluctor or hall effect but make sure the sensor type matches the wheel design.  Reluctor sensors typically need short sharp teeth compared to longer teeth for hall effect.

 

 

[Florent]

Thanks for answering Adam, you can see the "half moon" on the picture, the sensor is an hall effect, for the crankshaft it s a 36-1 if I remember well.

Does the xtreme or the fury handles cruise control and ethanol sensor?

[Adamw]

2 hours ago, Florent said:

Does the xtreme or the fury handles cruise control and ethanol sensor?

Yes both have all functions available.

[Florent]

Nice, thanks for the info! 

Is there an electronic throttle body which works well with these ECU?

You'll laugh at me but in a build on MCM, they were refering to a Bosch electronic TB as a common parts in such builds but I don't know which one and where to purchase.

 

[Simon]

Other (linkecu.com)

Any of the dealers will be able to get these

[Florent]

Hi Link community, 

Thanks for the previous answers, had a lack of spare time to work on the project. I still have dumb questions to ask.

I went for the fury X

I went for a shortcut and will be using an Honda throttle body, a friend of mine is adapting it to the intake manifold. As I was struggling to find a way to install a throttle pedal sensor without modifying too much the car. 

I was wondering if the RACV idle unit of the Honda throttle body can be driven by the fury X ? It would be very convenient, if not, I'll be using the original bosch actuator.

Internet picture of the RACV

On the below picture are not shown but on my hand:

-The loom A and B

- honda MAP and TPS connectors

- 6 duratec coils (2 wires) and the connectors

My friend replacing the factory venturi to adapt the Honda throttle body from an ej6 and creating a bracket for the bosch actuator if needed. 

[Florent]

So if someone knows if the Honda iddle actuator 16022-P2A-J01 is suitable with the fury X without water heating I would really appreciate

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by Florent
Added workshop capture - I understand IGP is 12v, iacv N is a ground and iacv P is the control from ecu, I guess it can be managed by the fury x, does anibody have tried it?

[Adamw]

Yes the ecu can control the honda valve no worries, this is what we call a "3 wire" valve.  12V to the center pin, the two outer pins need to be connected to either Aux 1 & 2 or Aux 3 & 4.

I dont have any personal experience with it to say if it can flow enough air for your particular engine or not but I would expect so based on the size of the ports.  You wont need the water side connected.  

Note for your 2 wire ignition coils, these will need ignitors/coil drivers to drive them, they can be connected directly to the ecu.  

[Florent]

Hi Adamw, 

Thanks for your help. I saw a build with these 2 wires COP but it uses a megasquirt and doesn't mention ignitors. I don't know what ignitors to purchase to run full sequential.

So I was looking for COP on which I can adapt the spark plug boot from the even-fire prv as I did on the 2 wires duratec COP. 

I found an Honda reference 30520-pwc-003 it's a 3 wires, would it require no ignitors? Hella brand is quite cheap on this reference, I can purchase one to try and if it works I can build a set to avoid the use of ignitors.

 

[Florent]

Hi Link community, 

The inside of the 30520-pwc-003 fits perfectly the PRV (Even fire) spark plug boot, the length is perfect, that's a win! 

[Adamw]

Sorry I missed your last post.  Yes those coils would be fine as they have internal ignitors.  

[Florent]

Did a bit of work

[Florent]

Hi guys,

I finished the wiring and installed the exhaust, loaded the 300ZX basemap and adapted with my stuff, calibrated MAP and TPS, cooling fan, ECT, IAT until I had no error codes but it doesn't start, it smells fuel but no spark at all, I tried with open throttle, nothing happens.

I purchased the ECU used, I don't have the activation code, I checked the enabled box is ticked.

I tried to identify the faults by myself but as a noob I didn't succeed, sorry if it's a million time questions but I don't know where to begin.

Below the cam trigger config is it ok for you (I have an half moon)?

 

Here's the crank trigger configuration, it's a 58 + 3 missing

Very

 

Here's an extract from a log while cranking, the injection timing seems odd with 400° BTDC

The fuel table of the 300ZX base map, my engine is a 2.8L with 320cc/min injectors

Are the ignition main well set?

 

Here's my lambda settings, is it ok for you?

 

Here's the isc , I don't know if I did right.

 

I well entered the injector capacity and the dead time tables

 

Thanks by advance for any advices

[Florent]

I got a COP with a plug out, no fuel on the spark plug and no spark I don't know where the fuel smell is from, I imagine because of the pump. 

The exhaust isn't smelling.

 

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, Florent said:

This shows that your triggers aren't syncing properly. Your trigger 1 settings look a bit odd, can't say I've ever heard of a 61 tooth trigger wheel. Do you have any pictures of the factory trigger wheel or a trigger scope log taken while the engine is cranking? It is much more likely to be a 60 tooth with 2 missing than a 61 tooth with 3 missing.

[Florent]

Here it is!

I can try to enter 60 minus 2

[Vaughan]

Yes that is a 60-2 trigger wheel.

[Florent]

Thanks Vaughan, I had a look, I verified that my coils are getting 12v through the relay, the grounds are good, the injectors have 12v, I entered 60 - 2 I had explosions in the back box. I checked the firing order is right 1-6-3-5-2-4

I'm really not sure of my cam trigger, I guess it s the answer, how would you set it?

EDIT:

I set the cam trigger like this and the engine caughing

 

I tried trig 2 edge rising but it creates explosion in the back box

[Florent]

It has started!! But it ran very rich, I lowered the tables so it gets around the 14's but the idle kept between 1500-1700rpm and when I put some retard the idle increased, very odd, PCLink says that the maximum advance is reached (does it correct the timing automatically to make it run? Not depending of the table?), I have logged it while it was running for the coolant bleed. 

 

 

I'll post the log later

 

Edit:Air box is temporary

[Florent]

I can't add the log because of the size restriction, I saw a vacuum port causing en vacuum leak so I close it, I then had to put the original values of the 300ZX tables to get it running back, it was very rich at idle so I leaned the map but then it was 14s at idle but when I tried to rev it, it leaned out and doesn't rev  meanwhile linkecu open a box stating the maximum advance is reached.

I think there's still a problem in the trigger setting does someone have an idea?

Here with the lambda

[Vaughan]

10 hours ago, Florent said:

Thanks Vaughan, I had a look, I verified that my coils are getting 12v through the relay, the grounds are good, the injectors have 12v, I entered 60 - 2 I had explosions in the back box. I checked the firing order is right 1-6-3-5-2-4

I'm really not sure of my cam trigger, I guess it s the answer, how would you set it?

EDIT:

I set the cam trigger like this and the engine caughing

 

I tried trig 2 edge rising but it creates explosion in the back box

need to see a trigger scope to check what the trigger 2 settings should be.

4 hours ago, Florent said:

It has started!! But it ran very rich, I lowered the tables so it gets around the 14's but the idle kept between 1500-1700rpm and when I put some retard the idle increased, very odd, PCLink says that the maximum advance is reached (does it correct the timing automatically to make it run? Not depending of the table?), I have logged it while it was running for the coolant bleed. 

The maximum advance warning means that the ignition angle that is being requested by the ignition table and all the trims is greater than the Ignition -> Ignition Main-> Ignition Main -> Maximum Advance setting.

24 minutes ago, Florent said:

I can't add the log because of the size restriction

you need to upload any logs and basemaps to something like google drive or onedrive and share a link to them.

[Adamw]

Your trigger 2 sync should be set to Cam level, not cam window.  Your offset may change by 360 if it doesnt start after changing that.  

Have you set base timing?

Also, I suggest you go to >layout>load layout and choose the Default 1366 x 768 one or the 1920 x 1080 one, they will give you more relevant views for initial setup and running.

[Florent]

Hi Vaughan and Adam,

Thanks for your help I'm begining to understand how to debug
I've checked my Log but I have only trigger 1 scope stored, trigger is in the list of the datas logged but isn't available in my log.

Trigger state seems not right, it lost count.

Here's the link toward my log

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1a8aaOG1HE1JQ6Naf5LOd9jugQByGbM7R?usp=sharing

@Adamwthank for the tip, I'll use it and I'll change the trigger 2 settings, I'll set the base timing as it now runs

[Adamw]

To do a trigger scope capture you need to go to >ecu controls>trigger scope, then click the capture button while it is running or cranking. Once you have a waveform showing in the scope screen you can then save it.