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Linkg4X software crashes whilst logging


AUSBen31

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Hey guys,

Having an issue with the LinkG4X software, recently updated the program to newest version and updated firmware on a customers LINKg4x fury. 

Tuned up initially with no problems. However, upon raising the dutycycle to achieve target, the software froze whilst logging. Upon restart, everything in the software had reset to standard (all custom dials/gauges in tuning page, logging parameters etc)

Performed some more steady state tuning the next day with no issues. First ramp run, crash again and reset. No ECU fault/PClink errors are being reported. Vehicle performs the run flawlessly, just the software freezes. 

Is there an external place crashes are saved or anything? I don't recall having this issue with G4x software before. I am yet to reduce dutycycle to see if it freezes still however will try this tomorrow. 

Any ideas would be appreciated as it takes ages to reset the gauges/logging parameters, and the log does not save when it freezes.

Thanks,

Ben

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loss of gauges is most likely because of forcing PCLink to stop so it hasn't had a chance to save your layout changes, Probably worth having a chat to tech support as this sounds like a communication issue and they have a list of things to check.

Also if PCLink does freeze again maybe try unplugging the USB and plugging it back in as I have seen this caused by the USB driver before but that was more than a year ago.

And not a bad idea to make sure you are using the latest PCLink an firmware.

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I saved the layout (never thought about doing that before) to save me going back and needing to make a new one each time. I've found if it happens and i unplug the ECU it doesn't reset everything. 

I tried ferrite clampshells on the USB comms cable, one pull it was OK, next it dropped out at around 6000rpm. 


However, now it seems the issue is getting worse or showing other symptoms. I will upload photos of a trig1 error it had tonight and log/tune file. It says 3 were reported before this one, but i did not see/catch them in a log.

Specifications of car:

-Nissan stagea C34 manual converted
-Rb25det neo engine
-Link g4x fury wire in
-E-throttle bosch motorsport
-350z pedal
-4port MAC solenoid
-PRP cam + crank trigger (used in past plenty of times with no issues)
-LS Alternator w/ PRP bracket
-3584rs @ 26ish psi target atm

In this log/photos was a 4th gear pull on dyno

photo 1 just before the trigger error

photo 2 as trig1 error faulted, noticed voltage to link seemed to drop to 13.X at same time, However straight away back to 14.X a few MS later.

So now i seem to be battling more than 1 issue perhaps. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Can provide any logs / diagnostics required as i can't currently finish tuning this vehicle until i sort the disconnects etc. 

I have gone over all the earths to make sure they have a clean ground (loom A is grounded to intake manifold in factory position, Loom B is grounded to chassis, coils are grounded to inlet manifold in again standard spot, coils power feed has the factory suppressor wired in still)

198750548_1138644069981497_8432849448918265851_n.thumb.jpg.87276f8b18c43affcee4665301fae429.jpg202807002_555868278906015_5221487286901060537_n.thumb.jpg.7be0f0fd6351f9bf9f873afa08f5ad6b.jpg

trig1error.llgx Connor-linkg4x-E85-START.pclx

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Can you give us a trigger scope.  Just do it at about say 3000RPM for the first look.

That dip in battery voltage at the exact time of the trigger error is a bit odd though.  I see there is a big spike in fuel press due to the injectors being shut off so maybe the fuel pump affected the batt voltage?  Bit hard to imagine.  There is another smaller dip in bat voltage at about 3600RPM.

 

For the connection issue, try changing the connect speed in the config menu to slow.  

W3eXBIn.png

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Hey mate,

I will perform a trigger scope at 3000RPM under free-rev and steady state for you tomorrow. I will also set connection speed to slow and try again. 

Yeah i see the spot your talking about. 663KPA @ its peak. The setup is 'over pumped' and the boost pressure was still at 273KPA, without injectors firing i assume that is why it was so high. 350-60KPA is minimum amount as return is most likely too restrictive (standard stagea cradle with a 525walbro, really should be changed or speed control pump i guess) 

Anyway i'll perform those trigger scopes for you tomorrow. Thanks for the reply.

Ben

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Some more logs carried out.

Tried slow connection in config + options on PClink, disconnected still. With no dutycycle to wastegate solenoid it did not disconnect or throw a trig1 error. 

update: tried 30hz on solenoid instead of 40hz, first pull fine no disconnect at 170kpa, 2nd pull disconnected.

boost control off run1 no trig1error.llgx disconnect with more dutycycle1.llgx trig error with less boost1.llgx trigerrorv1 pull.llgx

disconect with 30hz.llgx freq change from 40hz to 30hz no fault.llgx

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Im suspicious youve got an electrical noise issue.  There is not much in the 6000RPM trigger scope but there are a few odd spikes on the coming through on the ground in the low RPM triggerscopes.  They are only like 0.2V high so not an issue in these scopes but they possibly get bigger as ignition load is increased.

What does it have for coils?  Are the plugs resistor type?  Is it a modified factory loom or something custom?

Pel6SOp.png   

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Coils are R35 GTR coils with PRP bracket, 

plugs are BCPR7es so yes to resistive spark plugs

loom is modified factory loom with A+B looms run internal into it, so for instance the wiring for the triggers, the new CAS shielded section from the link harness was run up to the front of engine and the factory wiring was removed. The main items that are still factory are body connectors, coolant temp + gauge wiring, earth on manifold etc. The majority is new wiring from the A+B looms, loom A+B are grounded in different locations though if that would affect things? Loom A is grounded @ manifold where it is factory, loom B is grounded to chassis 

Are the trigger settings correct? i was just going over the scope readings and it seems that the 'trigger 1 state' isnt reading 100%, for example it says 'tooth before gap' when it seems to be two teeth before the gap, and 'tooth after gap' when it is now the tooth before? 

Capture.PNG

capture1.PNG

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Coils grounded to the head?  You could try adding a suppressor to the coil power supply somewhere near the coils.

Your grounds sound ok although I typically prefer a star point ground system so all grounds go to the same point.  

The trigger 1 state is reporting what test it is currently performing.  So "tooth before gap" should start two falling edges before the gap and finish as soon as the last falling edge beofre the gap passes.  "tooth after the gap should then be present from that point until the first falling edge after the gap passes.  Then it will do a further test to confirm the next tooth after the gap is the right width compared to the gap also.  So yeah all trigger settings look ok to me.  You could bump up the filtering quite a bit since you only have 12T but I have never personally solved a trigger issue with the filters, its worth a shot though.

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Thanks for confirming that with the 'trigger 1 state'

The coils are grounded to the intake manifold near the back, as per factory rb25 neo (same wiring) 
The power feed has the factory rb25 neo suppressor wired in, as this is some of the factory wiring. The power wire then goes over to a fuse box and is supplied power there. 

The mini bussman fusebox/relaybox is wired as follows (if it matters) starter positive pole > Fusebox power bridge, ECM, Coils, o2 sensor power (for the onboard lsu 4.9) on 3 separate relays, all earthed to same point as Loom B ground (chassis) then the E-throttle relay is the factory blue ECCS relay in the passenger footwell, powered as follows Starter positive pole > fusebox, then through firewall to relay. Triggered by 12v ECU supply.

Sort of lost for what else to check / do now. I can apply filtering and try another run, but i don't see that stopping the ECU disconnecting.

update: Ramped with filter level 2, still disconnected from laptop on ramp run, still flagged a trig1 error

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  • 4 weeks later...

Bumping this up for assistance. 

First, i've found that if you try to start the car, if it for any reason fails to start and you release the key from 'start' pos. It flags a trig1 error or two. Is this normal?

On the road during extended roadtests it has not disconnected or flagged a trigger1 error. Have run it up to top of third @ 270KPA without any trig1 errors.

Upon revisiting dyno again, low boost run first run (wastegate pressure) had a trig1 error same as above logs, RPM dropped to 0RPM at around 6700rpm and trig1 error. The next run the same. 

At 270-275KPA the PClog disconnected on dyno in 4th (1:1 gear), no trig1 error at this point. 

Anything else i can be checking? It has that 0.23v fluffy-ness to trig2 and minor to trig 1 that @Adamw pointed out still. What could cause this? 

Lost with this one. Don't want to give this to the customer with these known issues. I can't make it do it on the road but i want to get to the bottom of it.

Ben

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8 hours ago, AUSBen31 said:

First, i've found that if you try to start the car, if it for any reason fails to start and you release the key from 'start' pos. It flags a trig1 error or two. Is this normal?

Yes normal to get a trigger error or two as the engine stops.

 

9 hours ago, AUSBen31 said:

Anything else i can be checking? It has that 0.23v fluffy-ness to trig2 and minor to trig 1 that @Adamw pointed out still. What could cause this? 

Lost with this one. Don't want to give this to the customer with these known issues. I can't make it do it on the road but i want to get to the bottom of it.

You would really need toi get a scope when the error occured to get to the bottom of what is going on.  A standalone scope is much better for this as they can have much more memory so you can record for longer.

What type of sensor do they use on the crank?  Is it powered by 5V, 8V or 12V? 

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8 hours ago, Adamw said:

Yes normal to get a trigger error or two as the engine stops

Yeah i did think so, thanks for confirming this.

8 hours ago, Adamw said:

You would really need toi get a scope when the error occured to get to the bottom of what is going on.  A standalone scope is much better for this as they can have much more memory so you can record for longer.

I'll get a scope

8 hours ago, Adamw said:

What type of sensor do they use on the crank?  Is it powered by 5V, 8V or 12V? 

Powered by 12v, cherry sensor.

I've just noticed on the website, it now says (never used to say this):

************** FOR LINK ECU USER **************

if you have a LINK ECU, on check out can you please let a note in the comments area to inform us that you have an LINK ECU, so we can send out a Link specific Trigger disc

 

Have e-mailed PRP in regards to what this statement is about now.

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That PRP note is for the 36-2 wheel that used a reluctor sensor, it has a poor gap design (full depth cutout) so at high RPM the tooth after the gap sometimes doesnt cross zero.  Not sure why he is singling out Link because one of my M1 customers at my previous job had the same problem with it, but I know it was Link users that reported the issue and supplied trigger scopes to prove it.   

With the cherry/ZF sensors, they are specified to have quite a strong pull-up, so it might be worth trying temporarily connecting up the recommended pull-up to see if it helps.  I have only ever seen it cause an issue on high tooth count wheels (i think it was a 60-2) so I dont think it is the problem in this case but worth a shot.  The internal ECU pull-up is 4.7K to 5V so quite a bit weaker than specified.

f1m7z6t.png

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@Adamw 

Currently back to diagnosing this one at the moment. I havent tried an external pull up yet. Got this trigger scope under full load between 6500-7000rpm on dyno, any comments on this spike pictured?

I was speaking to Jono @ JP tuning and he suggested i change the sync tooth. Ive set it to 3 and the issue does actually seem to be better. It logged 1 trig1 error when it touched on limiter but nothing like it was?

received_406731527382715.webp

received_348903650191361.webp

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It looks like the trigger scope has used the wrong sample rate on that last capture, so it has only got very low res data (sample rate is determined based on some rules and doesnt look like it got it right).  

Those little spikes you caught earlier could potentially be it.  In that case they occured when both the crankk and cam signals where "high" so it would have had no effect, but if it occured when one of the signals was low then it would probably exceed the threshold and be interpreted as a tooth.  

Sync tooth is not critical in this case, you just dont want it anywhere near the cam tooth, anything less than about 7 would be fine and no different.  

 

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  • 8 months later...

Bumping up this post instead of making another. Same vehicle multiple issues. Will re-iterate and attach .pclx

Specifications of car:

-Nissan stagea C34 manual converted
-Rb25det neo engine
-Link g4x fury wire in
- R35 GTR coils w/ 0.47 suppressor (factory)

-E-throttle bosch motorsport (using this for idle control as well)
-350z pedal
-4port MAC solenoid
-PRP cam + crank trigger (used in past plenty of times with no issues)
-LS Alternator w/ PRP bracket
-3584rs
 

Issue 1: Cannot update firmware (newest version of PCLink. With ignition 'ON' and ecu connected. As soon as i press program, the ECU seems to power on/off multiple times (can hear fuel pump relay turning on/off as well as engine light on/off) until it says ' Link not responding' and reconnects to the ecu (makes me think my earlier disconnects may be hardware related). I unplugged ECU and plugged in a brand new G4X (locked still) and successfully updated firmware first go. 

Issue 2:  When idle speed control is set to 'closed loop' instead of 'open loop', the idle will fluctuate up and down above and below my target of 975rpm. Idles well in open loop. Have tried multiple things to no avail. Could only located 'I' settings no P or D under idle actuator, i'm sure im missing something rather simple with this one.

Issue 3: 'Suspect alternator'. Have an issue where the 'wiper fuse' will blow in certain circumstance. You can replace said fuse, idle vehicle and use wipers indefinitely. As soon as RPM raises above 2500~ the fuse will pop. On further investigation, the left pin (not supply side) becomes continuous with earth above that RPM and when letting off the accelerator.. Diagnosed this for hours trying multiple things, Found when the LS alternator regulator is unplugged running on battery voltage only. This does not happen and will continue to operate wipers. I then applied alternator voltage from another vehicle running to see if it was voltage related. Again, no issue with wipers at all. I can't say i have ever seen an alternator do something like this before. Any ideas?

 

conornew2022v1.pclx

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Issue one usually means the main power supply to the ecu is missing (pin A5).  If there is no 12V supplied to this pin the ecu will still power up via a backfeed through an aux, but a backfeed generally can only supply very little current.  So as soon as you try a processor intensive operation such as firmware update or sometimes even a store the ecu will brown out.  So unplug ecu and confirm there is actually full battery voltage on pin A5 in the loom. 

Issue 2 - will need to see a log.  In G4X the idle valve does the integral component (long term error), while the idle ignition does the P & I component (immediate error correction).  If the oscillation is due to the idle valve position then it would suggest your integral is too high.  

Issue 3 - I dont have any experience with the 2 wire LS alternators, I have only used the 4 wire ones.  Looking at diagrams on the web one pin is sense and one is the lamp.  Sense pin would usually be connected straight to battery positive.  The Lamp pin would be connected via  a bulb to ign switched +12V - and this pin would certainly ground at times but shouldnt above 2500.  

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