Jump to content

WGC34 Stagea NGTTX Install


Stick
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster.

I have finally pulled my finger out and purchased a G4X plugin for my manual converted WGC34 Stagea, to replace the current Nistuned stock ECU. Im running a Borg Warner Airwerks S257SX-E 0.83 with a Tial 44mm WG on the rear housing, off the factory manifold, Plazmaman plenum with stock bottom half, 1250cc injectors, Bosch R8 coilpacks, 3" turbo back exhaust with WG plumbed in (this will be changed to a 4" dump/front pipe). It makes 350 rwkw on e85, and 24 psi of boost.  

The list of sensors i am going to run are as follows:

  • Link CAN Lambda
  • Link IAT
  • 4 Bar MAP sensor
  • Continental Flex fuel sensor
  • Bosch Oil temp/press sensor
  • Bosch fuel temp/press sensor
  • 3 port MAC valve
  • NZ Wiring Cam Trigger Kit

I guess the purpose of this post is to get some info in regards to:

  • How i will integrate the sensors using the XS loom (as there is no info on the XSL header in the NGTTX install guide) and if i will need more than one XS Loom
  • What factory wiring i can repurpose (AFM etc).
  • Do i still need to run the narrowband O2 sensor?
  • If i can run a switch to change high/low boost settings
  • Can i ditch the IACV? and what other factory sensors can i ditch without causing issues (Purge solenoid etc)
  • Is there anything i need to do in regards to the ECU harness (repinning of wires etc) with the auto to manual conversion before i fit the ECU? 

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks, 

Josh

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Stick said:

How i will integrate the sensors using the XS loom (as there is no info on the XSL header in the NGTTX install guide) and if i will need more than one XS Loom

It is in the pinout section of the manual and marked on the actual PCB, but I will attach a clearer version below too.

 

5 hours ago, Stick said:

What factory wiring i can repurpose (AFM etc).

Yes you can use the MAF and Oxy analog inputs for something else if you wish (AN Volt 1&2).  

 

5 hours ago, Stick said:

Do i still need to run the narrowband O2 sensor?

No.

 

5 hours ago, Stick said:

If i can run a switch to change high/low boost settings

Yes, any DI.

 

5 hours ago, Stick said:

Can i ditch the IACV? and what other factory sensors can i ditch without causing issues (Purge solenoid etc)

I would keep the IACV if drivability is a consideration.

 

5 hours ago, Stick said:

Is there anything i need to do in regards to the ECU harness (repinning of wires etc) with the auto to manual conversion before i fit the ECU? 

@Vaughan might be able to answer that.  

 

 

yGbrB5c.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, rrob said:

Is your car 4wd? You will need to do some additional wiring to get a tps signal to the 4wd controller if so. 

WC34 suggests rwd as does the power units, but yes the TPS output needs to be fudged on the gtt plugin for 4wd applications

 

22 hours ago, Stick said:

Is there anything i need to do in regards to the ECU harness (repinning of wires etc) with the auto to manual conversion before i fit the ECU? 

I don't remember having to do anything specifically for auto to manual conversion wiring wise.

 

22 hours ago, Stick said:

Can i ditch the IACV? and what other factory sensors can i ditch without causing issues (Purge solenoid etc)

From memory there were 3 different idle control bits on my engine, the two on the back of the manifold and the one underneath, theoretically you can get rid of the the on underneath and leave the purple one on the back disconnected as only the brown one is ECU controlled, the purple is triggered by AC and unsure what the one underneath is controlled by. I ditched all of them on mine and went straight to E-Throttle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/29/2021 at 2:12 PM, Adamw said:

Yes you can use the MAF and Oxy analog inputs for something else if you wish (AN Volt 1&2).  

 

yGbrB5c.png

So i assume i can use either or Expansion Connector 1 or 2? Using EC2 with the repurposed o2 and MAF that will give me 4 x AN inputs, 2 temp and 2 digital. Can i reuse AN Volt 2 for instance to run the IAT? or does that need to be a specific AN Temp input?

  • Link IAT - AN Volt 2?
  • 4 Bar MAP sensor - AN Volt 5
  • Continental Flex fuel sensor - AN Volt 1
  • Bosch Oil temp/press sensor - AN Temp 2/AN Volt 5
  • Bosch fuel temp/press sensor - AN Temp 3/AN Volt 6
  • 3 port MAC valve - DI 5
  • Boost switch - DI 6

Additionally, if i wanted to add Launch control and Flat shifting, i would assume i would need to add another XSL loom for the additional digital inputs? As for the CANLambda, that just connects via a CANPCB? And if i want to run a CAN based digital dash, i just run a twisted pair to the dash off the loom side of the CANPCD and terminate with a resistor?

On 6/29/2021 at 7:53 PM, rrob said:

Is your car 4wd? You will need to do some additional wiring to get a tps signal to the 4wd controller if so. 

Nah, its an RS-V, so RWD. Its probably closer to a C35 Laurel than anything.

On 6/30/2021 at 6:57 AM, Vaughan said:

WC34 suggests rwd as does the power units, but yes the TPS output needs to be fudged on the gtt plugin for 4wd applications

 

I don't remember having to do anything specifically for auto to manual conversion wiring wise.

 

From memory there were 3 different idle control bits on my engine, the two on the back of the manifold and the one underneath, theoretically you can get rid of the the on underneath and leave the purple one on the back disconnected as only the brown one is ECU controlled, the purple is triggered by AC and unsure what the one underneath is controlled by. I ditched all of them on mine and went straight to E-Throttle.

Yep, definitely RWD. I'm just thinking back to when i did it, and i had to turn of a bunch of gear, all auto box related so it didn't trigger any CEL.

Mine is a Neo, so it just have the IACV on the back end of the stock plenum, but i've got the Plazmaman intake with the IACV relocator kit, its just an ugly, annoying lump of a thing. E-Throttle is the pipe dream, and i wish i thought about it before i bought my 66mm plazmaman TB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Being a rwd turbo NEO I imagine it had the factory traction control so you will probably need to remove that bulb from the dash or the complete electronics associated with it.

Yeah, it did. Its obviously been deleted now. In nistune you could just turn off any function involving the auto or TC. I kept the bulb in as it was used as the launch control activation light

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Stick said:
  • Link IAT - AN Volt 2?
  • 4 Bar MAP sensor - AN Volt 5
  • Continental Flex fuel sensor - AN Volt 1
  • Bosch Oil temp/press sensor - AN Temp 2/AN Volt 5
  • Bosch fuel temp/press sensor - AN Temp 3/AN Volt 6
  • 3 port MAC valve - DI 5
  • Boost switch - DI 6

I would do IAT to AN Temp 3, you dont need fuel temp as the flex sensor already gives you fuel temp.

Flex sensor need to be connected to a DI.  Suggest DI5.  

Oil & Fuel press and oil temp is fine as you have them.  Dont connect fuel temp.

Boost valve needs to be connected to an Aux output.  Use Aux 7 which was originally the narrowband heater or possibly Aux 5.  

Boost switch, DI6 is fine.

Launch and flat shift is up to you.  Launch you dont really need a switch depending on how you want it to work, you can often just switch it on based on speed.  Flat shift will need a clutch switch, you can use one of the ones on the other exp connector or possibly DI2 start signal is not that important (only used for precrank prime but you can change it to just "key on").

 

1 hour ago, Stick said:

As for the CANLambda, that just connects via a CANPCB? And if i want to run a CAN based digital dash, i just run a twisted pair to the dash off the loom side of the CANPCD and terminate with a resistor?

Many dashes have an option in their software to enable an internal terminination resistor so check that befor adding one.  In this case you want the device with the resistor at the far end of the bus so you would go ECU>Lambda>dash.

rRD7rfm.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Just finalising wiring/install for my GTT G4X plug in and have a couple of questions:

I will be reusing the Oxy Heater/AUX 7 for my MAC/boost solenoid, and was wondering what wires i need to use? RB25 runs a 3 wire with Sig/Heat/Heat, im assuming i use SIG and 1 heat?

Can i ditch the IACV and have the ecu/TB control idle using the Idle Ignition function?

Thanks in advance!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Stick said:

I will be reusing the Oxy Heater/AUX 7 for my MAC/boost solenoid, and was wondering what wires i need to use? RB25 runs a 3 wire with Sig/Heat/Heat, im assuming i use SIG and 1 heat?

Use the two heater wires.

 

15 minutes ago, Stick said:

Can i ditch the IACV and have the ecu/TB control idle using the Idle Ignition function?

Not if you want it to idle when cold, or with AC running or when power steering is working at idle.  If it is just a race car where none of that is relevant then it will be ok. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Not if you want it to idle when cold, or with AC running or when power steering is working at idle.  If it is just a race car where none of that is relevant then it will be ok. 

If i convert to E Throttle, can i then ditch the IACV?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Stick said:

If i convert to E Throttle, can i then ditch the IACV?

Yes, I converted to E-Throttle and ditched the solenoid underneath and the two solenoids at the rear of the intake manifold (S2 motor). Note Aux9&10 aren't exposed on the GTT plugin and so it will need to be sent back to have flying leads added or you will need to use an External E-Throttle unit in combination with Aux1&2 or Aux3&4.

 

Looking at the pinout you will have to shuffle some pins around to use Aux1&2 or Aux3&4 with an external E-Throttle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

So, I've finally gotten around to getting this to the point of starting, but i have issues. Car will crank, but will not fire. I took a quick log of me cranking the car over but im not really sure what i should be looking at. 

Another issue i've noticed is that my ethanol content sensor only works if the pull up is ON, and i noticed that the fuel temp is showing 200 deg C (which it definitely isn't).

I've attached the base tune, and the log of the cranking. Any insight would be appreciated. 

Stagea1.pclx PC Datalog - 2022-01-15 6;23;38 pm.llgx

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Trigger 2 sync mode should be set to none for the NZ wiring cam trigger.  

Have you checked base timing?

I would suggest dropping trig 1 arming threshold also:

BvgJmrt.png

 

Battery voltage is only 9.8V before cranking and 7.8V when cranking, you will need to fix that, it will likely have little spark or fuel at that.  

 

24 minutes ago, Stick said:

Another issue i've noticed is that my ethanol content sensor only works if the pull up is ON, and i noticed that the fuel temp is showing 200 deg C (which it definitely isn't).

Pull-up should be on.  Set active edge to rising.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply @Adamw.

Missed the trigger 2 sync mode. Base timing has not been checked (no timing light), but when speaking to Geoff from NZW he said it should at least start using the settings he provided (i realise it will need to be checked)

I did notice the low voltage. I have a lithium battery to go in, just waiting for a charger to arrive so not wanting to kill it before then. Have been using the old battery (which is actually showing 12.7v)

Will change active edge to rising.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, made all the changes. Also found 2 blown ecu power fuses, which is why the ECU was seeing ~10v when the battery was 13v+.

Car now starts and runs, but not on all cylinders. I have Bosch R8 coilpacks, is there anything that needs to be changed to suit these?

I've tested all the injectors using the test function and all are firing. Is there a way to test coilpack function?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Settings shouldnt need any changes to make it run.  You should enter correct dwell times for the coils but that wont stop it from running on all cylinders.

There is an ignition test function that works similar to the injector test.  Pull the coils out and ground them with a spark plug so you can see the spark when you run the test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So i happened to find that function last over the weekend, not knowing exactly how it worked, i had assumed it would allow me to see the coilpack fire with a DMM. Bad idea leaving the spark plug in the cylinder.. Loudest bang i've ever heard. No idea if that caused any damage to the engine or is causing the current issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

To get fuel level to send to my PowerTune Digital dash, do i need to send the fuel level to the the ECU first? or does the ECU see that data already and i just need to setup a CAN stream? Likewise for a low fuel warning?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/8/2022 at 2:38 PM, Stick said:

To get fuel level to send to my PowerTune Digital dash, do i need to send the fuel level to the the ECU first? or does the ECU see that data already and i just need to setup a CAN stream? Likewise for a low fuel warning?

Hi @Adamw, in regards to the above, can i run a wire from the fuel gauge to AN Volt3 (PIN 47 factory MAP) to use for fuel level? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To connect a fuel level sensor to the ECU you will need a pull-up resistor to 5V.  Circuit below also has a capacitor and resistor to "slow down" the signal so you dont just see the fuel sloshing around etc.  

aQUuRal.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Adamw said:

To connect a fuel level sensor to the ECU you will need a pull-up resistor to 5V.  Circuit below also has a capacitor and resistor to "slow down" the signal so you dont just see the fuel sloshing around etc.  

aQUuRal.png

Ah right!I actually wrote this down a while back and forgot what it was for!

Will it be ok to reuse AN Volt 3 as the input?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...