Endurance_Racer Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 So I have a Link Thunder with a PDM unit. Running Ethrottle on a LS2 408 Stroker 3L whipple supercharger. I am having some time getting the triggers sorted. The Crank is running a 24x trigger with black sensor. 12v supply and ground with signal to the ECU. The cam is mounted in the front cover running a 1x Signal and using a beige sensor hooked up to 5v reference supply. Here is the trigger scope. It is like it will keep jumping around for timing. Here is the tune file and the scope. Any help appreciated. LS2_SC3_1000cc_E85.pclr Trigger Scope Log 2022-07-5 5;57;41 pm.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 Did you try the LS1 5-10 mode and LS1 3-12 mode? The 5-10 is the most common, but your crank tooth spacing looks more like the 3-12. But I do notice your cam tooth is in a different place than normal, about 80deg advance compared to expected LS1 so the LS1 modes may not work. I dont really see an obvious reason why your existing set up as multitooth, with 24 falling edges wouldnt work though. Possibly the trig 2 rising edge is a bit close, trig 2 falling edge looks better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted July 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 Ok so while cranking and trying the 3-12 it looks like I have both trig signals active. But no RPM. Tried the multitooth 24 both falling and still getting a lot of Trigger errors. I am not sure why this is. Will it matter that the cam sensor is running 5v ref. and the Crank is 12v? I do not see that being a big deal. This has really become a nightmare. The previous setup was running wasted spark on an old Motec MLS unit. Any help would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 6, 2022 Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 3 hours ago, DAS_trk said: Will it matter that the cam sensor is running 5v ref. and the Crank is 12v? No, all the ecu needs is an edge that rises above 1.5V and falls below 1.0V, which looks good in your scope. Since I dont see any obvious reason why the multitooth option isnt happy, can you try this: Change trigger mode to Subaru V1-6, store and power cycle. The rerason for this is changing to a completely different mode like this causes a re-initialisation of all trigger code and settings. Then change back to Multitooth mode, 24T, cam pulse 1X sync mode, falling on both trig 1 & 2. Store & power cycle again. Then try cranking, If still no good like that can you do us a short log of it cranking and another trigger scope. Endurance_Racer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted July 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2022 Ok So here are both. Still getting trigger errors. Seems to start counting right away. Now the Scope looks a little different. Log 2022-07-6 4;52;20 pm.llg Trigger Scope Log 2022-07-6 4;51;49 pm.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Ok, sorry I wasnt paying as close attention as I should have been... There is something wrong with the crank signal. In your scope I have marked each falling edge with a small pink dash. As you can see there are 35 falling edges per crank rev, there should only be 24. The 24X wheel is a weird two row wheel and the matching sensor actually has two sensors inside and one subtracts "teeth" from the other. So it seems either that crank sensor is failed or the wrong one so some of the teeth arent getting "subtracted".. Endurance_Racer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Interesting that you say this. The crank is a callies crank with a machined ring on it. Supposedly the engine builder said it was a 24tooth wheel. Looking at this the first time I was very skeptical that this was the case. I will need to get in touch with them tomorrow and see what is different from there wheel. I did pull it and it seemed as though there were more teeth then I was used to. Have you seen a callies crank with a tooth pattern like this for an LS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 It seems there is a mismatch between sensor and wheel that is generating the wrong pattern. The original LS* 24X was two pressed steel wheels like below side by side. I cant remember exactly how the sensor works, but it is effectively 2 sensors side by side, but only one signal output back to the ecu. From memory depending if both sensors saw a tooth or only one saw a tooth would determine if there was an output or not. It could be an alignment issue or it could be that the callies wheel is designed to use the 58X sensor instead (58X sensor is a single row sensor). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 You know whats interesting is that the callies crank is a single piece billet 24x reluctor wheel. I am going to try and swap the Crank position sensor tomorrow for a brand new unit and see if it changes. Should I use Rising edge for the crank? It is very odd that it is doing this. Would grounds affect this? The only reason I ask is that the person previously who wired the car had the ground side to the battery on a kill switch instead of the positive. I have a few other things to try. But I will get a picture tomorrow of the crank sensor wheel when I remove the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 1 hour ago, DAS_trk said: Should I use Rising edge for the crank? Should be falling edge for multitooth mode. But once you have the correct crank signal you will likely be able to use one of the proper LS1 triggermodes which will give faster startup than multitooth. I think the LS1 modes use rising edge. 1 hour ago, DAS_trk said: Would grounds affect this? The only reason I ask is that the person previously who wired the car had the ground side to the battery on a kill switch instead of the positive. Dont think so, waveform looks ok in terms of voltage etc. Seems more hardware related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Ok... So we have lift off. After careful review. The hardware was the issue. The last person who had this engine setup on this car used a LS3 Crank sensor that was black with the 24x crank wheel. So after purchasing the 24x sensor which was black as well and swapping it out. The car fired right away on LS1 setting. Wow this made such a stink with that newer sensor for the crank trigger with 12v. hooked up to it which you had specified earlier. I do have one other question. I have NTK sensors from Ballenger. They are 6 wire sensors. Will they work with the Link Thunder. I believe I have them wired correctly as stated in the software. But I am getting some codes. Are they compatible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 7, 2022 Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, DAS_trk said: I have NTK sensors from Ballenger. They are 6 wire sensors. Will they work with the Link Thunder. I believe I have them wired correctly as stated in the software. But I am getting some codes. No only LSU4.9 unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted July 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2022 Ok sounds good. Do you have a wiring schematic of the LSu 4.9 Sensor? Let me know. Cheers Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 8, 2022 Report Share Posted July 8, 2022 Be aware the sensor will only have 5 wires coming out of the sensor side of the connector but you still need all 6 wires connected to ecu. And you must keep the original plug, you cant change it to some other type of generic connector for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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