coreyb Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Setting up an ATOM on a toyota 4age 16v engine and i used the recommended trigger setting from LINK help. Engine is stock, ITBs and using distributor with the recommended trigger setting i do not get an rpm but if i use multi tooth/ missing tooth i get rpm. Can i stay with those settings or am i missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Do us a triggerscope and attach here along with your map. To do a triggerscope, go to >ecu controls>trigger scope. Click the capture but only when the engine is cranking (not before). Then save that scope file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted December 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Attached is trigger scope with triggers set to multi tooth Map is missing tooth trigger which is what gives rpm. Atom 4AGE Base map-v1b.pclx TriggerScopeLog2.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essb00 Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 Could you confirm (perhaps take a picture) how many teeth in the CAS inside the distributor? Some early 16V 4A-GE (for trig 2) has 4 teeth, later 16V has only 1 tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted December 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 1 tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essb00 Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 ...24 teeth on trig 1 CAS? Your triggerscope result does not seem to correspond to any 'stock' CAS pattern of 4A-GE... Can you try another triggerscope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 30, 2022 Report Share Posted December 30, 2022 It appears you have a wiring issue as both the G1 & G2 signals are showing on the trigger 2 trace and you can also see everytime a trigger 2 tooth occurs it messes up the trig 1 signal a little. You can see only 12T between trigger 2 events whereas there should be 24. Possibly a ground is missing or broken since that is the only connection between all 3 sensors. Can you tell us how the distributor is connected to the ecu or attach a photo etc. Trigger 2 is also not reaching the arming threshold but that is possibly due to the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted December 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 Hi Adam attached are picture of connector end of distributor (white wires are now joined and use for ground corresponding to white wire in distributor pic and the black and red correspond with the same colours in the distributor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 I cant really see what wire is going where in that pic, so still cant confirm there isnt a wiring issue too, but in your first pic it is now pretty obvious that someone has cut every second tooth off the 24T wheel so it is now only 12T. So change your trigger settings to the example below to see if you get RPM with those. If you still dont have a trigger 2 signal then give me a better pic of that connector showing what wire goes where. Edit - just had another look, im now suspicious from that odd pattern on the scope that someone has either tried to make that into a 12-1 wheel, or possibly has ground the wrong tooth off or something. Can you pull the rotor off and give us an end-on pic of the dizzy so we can see all the teeth on the bottom wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted December 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 ahhhh....yes now that you mention it that be possible............i will get it check today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essb00 Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 Just as I thought... but it is not clear on the picture how many teeth were ground off... Does all the teeth left have the same heights? What's the air gap to the pickups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted February 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 Finally getting back to this project.....customer has a distributor thats 24teeth bottom wheel and 4 teeth top wheel............will this work or do i need to remove teeth from top wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 A single tooth top wheel will allow full sequential injection and ignition - so I would do that. If you leave it alone it may be possible to do some type of batch fire system, but I don't know why you would want to do that given the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 9, 2023 Report Share Posted February 9, 2023 Remove 3 teeth from the top wheel, doesnt matter which 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted March 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 It has been a while now getting back to this setup.....I also got a 12 teeth bottom wheel and 1 tooth top wheel distributor.....can i just use that instead of removing teeth from the 4 teeth top wheel distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 13, 2023 Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 Theoretically that would do exactly the same as removing 3 teeth from the other distributor, so I would say yes. Are you sure the bottom wheel is only 12 teeth and not 24 on that distributor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted March 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2023 yes definitely 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted March 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 Hi Guys So i am getting a spark at coil if i do test but not getting any spark from plug#1 from distributor. Not sure if i am missing something in the map setup so i have attached calibration and 2 trigger scopes one is 24-1 and other 12-1. Let me know what i might be missing. 12-1 TriggerScopeLog.llgx 24-1 TriggerScopeLog1.llgx Atom 4AGE Base map-V3.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 20, 2023 Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 Definitely 24 teeth, the signal is a very low voltage though to the point that I'm not sure even 0.2V arming voltage would work for trigger 1. Start by charging your battery as it appears to be pretty shagged and then consider changing your trigger 1 and 2 arming threshold values to 0.2V at 500rpm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 20, 2023 Report Share Posted March 20, 2023 In most of the older Toyota distributors the sensor air gap is adjustable too. So check that with a feeler gauge, if its more than about 0.25mm, then bring it down to 0.2mm. Check it on more than one tooth in case there is some runout. Usually something similar to below, loosen the circled screw a little then adjust with a flat blade screwdriver between those 2 dimples and the notch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted March 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2023 On 3/20/2023 at 12:16 AM, Vaughan said: Definitely 24 teeth, the signal is a very low voltage though to the point that I'm not sure even 0.2V arming voltage would work for trigger 1. Start by charging your battery as it appears to be pretty shagged and then consider changing your trigger 1 and 2 arming threshold values to 0.2V at 500rpm. What would cause that low voltage reading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 21, 2023 Report Share Posted March 21, 2023 Reluctor sensors such as those used in the distributor output a voltage based on gap and speed that a metal tooth passes the pickup. Hence the advice to tighten the gap, and charge your battery (concievably for faster cranking speed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coreyb Posted March 27, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 Hi Guys iam getting RPM but no spark. If i do a IGN1 test the timing light flashes. i have attached log, trigger scope and map Atom 4AGE Base map-V4(NOTSTARTING).pclx LOG-RpmNOSpark.llgx TriggerScopeLog_RPMnoSPARK.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 Your trigger scope has the polarity on the cam sync signal inverted. The signal should rise first, then drop past zero, then rise again close to zero. The resolution of the log/test is pretty coarse so it's hard to tell if the signal is also inverted on the crank trigger. Are you still running the VAST module system? Your previous 24 tooth trigger scope showed the polarity correctly so I'm unsure how that would have changed. I'm attaching a trigger scope of what I would expect to see from another toyota distributor based ignition (3sgte in this case) so you can see it for reference.https://www.dropbox.com/s/6ksiz9nsoxtai0a/TriggerScopeLog-1-19-23_typical_3sgte_distributor_cranking.jpg?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 Did you check and/or adjust that sensor air gap? You still have the same voltage problem as in the scopes from a week ago, and as KO says it appears you have created another by messing with the wiring. In your cranking log it only sees an acceptable trigger signal for the first 4 revolutions then when it just slows down a tiny bit you loose trigger 1 probably because the voltage drops below the threshold. So you should have had a spark for the first couple of seconds of cranking but it loses sync after that so there will be no spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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