E-Throttle Faults

[Clattie]

Hi guys, I've been trying to setup my ECU before Pre-start but i'm some issues!

I can't calibrate my tps as i'm guessing faults,although my aps is fine and my values change with pedal movements, i've also got a fault code for multiple Analog channels and Oil Temperature.

Any idea why?

PC Datalog - 2023-02-12 7;50;55 pm.llgx

[Adamw]

The event log says ANV 11 & ANV 12 are above the error value so you most likely have those error high values set too low.  Those would cause the APS Main error and TPS sub error at the same time.  The norm would be to set those error values to 4.95V.  None of the other errors are related to throttle.  

If you still cant calibrate with the error values fixed then please give us a log of an attempted TPS calibration and a copy of the tune.  

[Clattie]

Cheers adam, i just assumed i could load in my inputs/outputs and the software would do the rest.
I'll give it ago first thing and hopefully its all corrected.

 

Cheers!

[Clattie]

So all that is now working, problem now is that when the throttle mode is set to 'ON' the flap doesn't open and close with the pedal.

My APS values and perfectly fine but the TPS values don't change. Any idea?

PC Datalog - 2023-02-13 1;57;49 pm.llgx

[Confused]

Share a copy of your pclx file too, there's probably still setup issues that we can't necessarily see from just a log.

[koracing]

You'll have to see if the E-throttle is set to run throttle when stalled or quiet throttle.  If it's set to quiet then it won't move the throttle with pedal inputs unless the engine is running.  You also need to have reasonable values for the idle base position and the e-throttle targets in the target table.  In your log the e-throttle target never changes from zero.

[Clattie]

Is there a proper guide for setting E-throttle up? the link help guide doesn't mention much.

What would be a reasonable value for both idle and e-throttle targets? I'm running a Gen 3 3SGTE.

I've added the updated log file down below, which includes calibration and throttle input. I'm assuming the fault is the target tables as i've not set these up. I just want to run a 1:1 ratio as if it was cable driven.



PC Datalog - 2023-02-13 1;57;49 pm.llgx

[koracing]

Basic e-throttle target table is normally set with APS on the y axis and rpm on the x axis.  For direct linear control you should have the table set 0% at 0% aps and 100% at 100% aps and then zero again at any rpm above your maximum value.  You should have idle actuator set as ethrottle, and base position to around 5% as a starting point.  

[Clattie]

What do you mean by rpm at zero again above my maximum value?

 

I've set my aps to 100% at 100, would I also have to add in 90%,80%,70% and so on to make it linear?

[Confused]

I don't think you've read the Help at all, there's many pages of information regarding how to set this up, even an example of a E-Throttle Target table.

You're also not reading here, at least two people have asked you to upload a copy of your current configuration, and still you're only providing log files and a photograph which contains only a very small subset of the settings required for E-Throttle to function correctly.

 

I would argue that, in fact, you do not want a 1:1 ratio, because a standard cabled throttle isn't a 1:1 ratio, and this will give you a different throttle response to what you're used to and expecting. The design & positioning of the wheel and cable mounting will have an affect on the throttle opening percentage compared to pedal position. However, it is a place to start with tuning your E-Throttle targets.

[Adamw]

Example in the help file:

[Clattie]

How do i upload a copy of the configuration? Do you mean the configuration page like i've added at the start of the page? I've never used any sort of ECU tuning program in my life.

I definitely want a 1:1 ratio so i can modulate everything myself. I don't want a big area of hardly any throttle and a small area of a lot, i know it is smoother to do it this way but i prefer complete control.

I've added some more images below to show you what i've setup from the info you have provided, if this is correct?

[Adamw]

1 hour ago, Clattie said:

How do i upload a copy of the configuration? Do you mean the configuration page like i've added at the start of the page?

The ECU configuration - or "Map", "Tune", "Calibration" etc.  Go to >file>save as. It will have a .pclx extension.

 

1 hour ago, Clattie said:

I definitely want a 1:1 ratio so i can modulate everything myself. I don't want a big area of hardly any throttle and a small area of a lot, i know it is smoother to do it this way but i prefer complete control.

I suspect you might change your mind when you bunny hop all the way to 40mph.  The idea with throttle mapping is to linearise the torque output.  The pic I have attached below is just a random one I got from a google image search using the term "Torque output Vs throttle angle", so I dont know any detail about what engine it is from etc, but the blue line shows the general trend that you usually see with a butterfly throttle.  The 0-80deg along the X axis would represent what we normally refer to as 0-100% TP.  So at low RPM, increasing the throttle position from say a starting point of 10% up to 20% may increase the torque by 200-300%, but after that, opening it a further 80% may only increase torque by 20%.    Some cars will work ok with a 1:1 relationship but those that do often have some type of linearisation built into the TPS output or the geometry of the blade/housing. 1:1 is still a fine point to start from, just it often wont be nice to drive or predictable for the driver.  

 

[koracing]

In my experience it depends closely on the size of the throttle versus the engine's ability to use the airflow provided.  Theoretically a well sized throttle blade should be fairly linear in response at 1:1.  There are a lot of cars that came from the factory with mechanical throttle connections at 1:1, and the simplicity of it is easy to understand for someone going to e-throttle.  Larger than necessary definitely have more of that blue curve feel to them (much above 1/2 throttle makes almost no difference).  The usual trend in aftermarket parts is to get something much larger than needed "because racecar" in which case it is very nice to have the ability to tune it to a more linear feel.

On the other hand, after giving it some thought: possibly that the ones that work better at 1:1 are actually undersized or giving up the top maximum flow potential to trade off better throttle mechanical throttle response?

22 hours ago, Clattie said:

What do you mean by rpm at zero again above my maximum value?

 

You can use the e-throttle as a mechanical rev-limiter similar to the chart in the help menu that @adamw posted - in that example the throttle closes pretty significantly between 7000 and 7200 rpm to prevent over-revving.  

[Clattie]

I've attached my pclx file below.

I see what you mean now, it may make more sense to have more range of play down below but not necessarily too much like modern day economical cars, mainly for control at lower speeds and not having to tippy toe the throttle lower down the range.

I've also upped my throttle body from 50mm or so to 76mm, so like others have said it may make sense for me to widen that range lower down as i've now upped the throttle inlet size as you were saying.

It says in the help file that my min and max dc clamp should be lower using a e-throttle so i've set them both at -30% and 30%, i'm not too sure what this does though, is this the max the software can open and close the body? Such as idle, cruise control etc..?

 

A MR2 MAP.pclx

[Adamw]

1 hour ago, Clattie said:

It says in the help file that my min and max dc clamp should be lower using a e-throttle so i've set them both at -30% and 30%, i'm not too sure what this does though, is this the max the software can open and close the body? Such as idle, cruise control etc..?

You might be confusing two different sets of clamps here.  In the E-throttle settings there is a min and max clamp for the duty cycle sent to the motor.  Usually start with these around -90 and +90.  The DC affects how much power the motor has, Sometimes these need to be reduced if there is a lot of overshoot on fast movements that cant be corrected with PID, or if the motor has known weak gears you can use this to reduce the load ion the gears etc.  Some systems with heavy springs etc may need higher DC.  

In the Idle actuator settings there as another min and max clamp, these are the min and max throttle position that will be commanded when idle conditions are met.  Typically you set these a bit lower and a bit higher than what is seen at normal idle.  Start with 2% min and 7% max.  

While you are in idle settings, your idle base position table needs to be adjusted also, set this to 3.5% right across as a starting point.  Zero out the startup offset and change integral gain to 0.03.

 

Edit:

I forgot to mention your MAP sensor is way off and your IAT and ECT dont match.  Assuming the car hasnt been started recently the IAT and ECT would usually read pretty similar.

[Clattie]

Right I see, so your allowing upto 90% of power opening and closing the throttle, does this just determine how violent or tame the opening and closing of the body will be?

 

And I'm assuming the idle min and max clamp will be the largest and lowest tolerance the throttle body is allow to wonder in them set idle conditions?

 

The car hasn't been started but I also noticed this, maybe its something to do with sensor calibration as there was no option for my particular sensors. I think the IAT is right though as I selected the link sensor and was reading exactly as it should.

 

ECT and Map I have no clue though, these values were from turning over the engine but no start. I was checking Oil pressure which was hitting 50psi.

A MR2 MAP.pclx

[koracing]

What map sensor and coolant temp sensor are you running to the ecu?

[Clattie]

I'm running the stock gen 3 3sgte ect sensor (I believe they are a delphi or GM brand maybe) and a AEM 3.5 bar map.

https://primemr2.com/products/coolant-temp-sensor-gen2-3

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000CFUN3C/ref=pe_27063361_485629781_TE_item

[Adamw]

The Std Bosch NTC calibration is correct for the Toyota ECT sensor.  What IAT do you have?  You said above "you selected th link sensor", but in your map it is set to Std Bosch NTC as well.

MAP sensor should be set up like this:

  

[Clattie]

I'm using the IAT-8 is it? Off the top of my head. The model number is very similar atleast.

I think the ETC is wrong as it was 0°C that day. Seems wayy too high, I was thinking could it be warmer inside the block but surely that can't be the case.

 

Yes I wasn't sure about adding custom sensors to the link software, I know AEM and other brands sometimes tend to use generic sensors and stick their label on it so I just chosen the generic one. That should sort it.

 

I'm home Friday morning so I can start double checking all this on the car.

[Adamw]

If you have the Link IAT with 1/8NPT brass thread and the DTM plug on it then the calibration should be set to "Link NTC1-8 & Link IAT1-8".

If you have the black totally plastic flange mounted one then this uses the Bosch cal.  

[Clattie]

First one it was, I'm pretty sure I set it to that. So im gunna assume the ECT sensors may be different than stock.

 

I could always go aftermarket anyways.

[Adamw]

7 minutes ago, Clattie said:

I'm pretty sure I set it to that.

No, in the map you have attached above you have the IAT set to Std Bosch NTC.  The ECT is set up correctly.  If you set the IAT calibration to Link IAT it would read within a degree or 2 of the ECT which would indicate the ECT is reading correct also. 

[Clattie]

11 hours ago, Adamw said:

No, in the map you have attached above you have the IAT set to Std Bosch NTC.  The ECT is set up correctly.  If you set the IAT calibration to Link IAT it would read within a degree or 2 of the ECT which would indicate the ECT is reading correct also. 

It seems like I may not have saved the file after configuring the IAT but surely the ECT is still off? As I said it was around 0 degrees celsius that day and the car is parked outside 24/7.