EVO 8 V44 plugin - no knock or speed input?

[Grant Baker]

You should probably increase your MAP limit slightly. It probably did hit 300kpa, but your 10hz sample rate isn't fast enough to catch it on the log.

[Scott]

Grant is correct, possibly at 10Hz your logging may not have caught it. Also, the default Limit Control Range (only visible when Advanced Mode is on) for the MAP Limit is 10 kPa, this means that the Map limit would start becoming active 10 kPa before the numbers in your MAP Limit table.

[paulr33]

Do you have the knockblock configured as per figure 1 on page 6 of the manual? I'm not concerned if you don't have the LED, headphones, knock 2 or analog out connected.

Once you have it wired up set the gain position switch as per the instructions in section 3.1 (page 12). You can measure the analog output with a voltmeter, you want to see 1 to 2 volts. Use one of the positions without 'noise cancellation' as this only applies to the analog output of the knockblock and your ECU is going to be using the signal received on its digital input channel.

Next use the calculation technique as described in section 3.2.1 (pages 14-15) to select your filter switch position. The information I have says that from the EVO 6 onwards a dual harmonic sensors was used and the frequency filter should be set to 13 kHz. Have a go with the calculation and see if your results agree,

Make sure your digital input and aux output channel are allocated correctly.

Set your knock settings to be something like this to start with:

 

 

Your Knock Target table will probably be set to zero in all the cells. This means that if any noise is read on a cylinder pair the ECU will retard the ignition timing. If you look at the Knock tab of the runtime values window you should see this happening. If you then raise the value in the knock target table to be above the current engine noise level you will see the ECU re-introduce the timing.

The 'Knk Ign Trim CylX' tables are there for information purposes, you look here to see at which engine load and engine speed point the ECU has removed timing. Normally you would not edit these tables yourself.

 

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for your detailed help and I did this on the weekend and it looks like ive got the knock box setup properly. I set the gain to 0 then revved to 3500rpm and kept increasing gain until i saw around 1.5vs on the analogue output wire, from memory the gain is set to 2. then i set the filter frequency to C which is 13khz and that all appeared OK. I then set the knock system active and all the attributes / trim settings as per the two above screen shots. these saved and commited Ok and no issues.

 

With the engine running on the vipec "run time values" and on the "DI input tab" I can see "D1 - Digital KNOCK feedback Active" flashing in green but on the far right panel "KNOCK" under "Knock Sys Status" it says ERR - DI KNK ....

I can get a screen shot of the error. Is there a way to debug the input from the knock box, I.e can i add a manual voltage watch on DI1 to see if its actually sending some sort of voltage? Below is current tune and logs if this helps

 

http://www.paulr33.com/evo/knock.zip

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by paulr33

[Scott]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the base-map. Try disabling Digital Input 5, set it to OFF.

In the log files the knock status is not available. Can you record a PCLog please?

[paulr33]

Thanks, will try this tonight 

[paulr33]

see below latest tune with DI5 off and also the PC logs and screenshots, not sure if its any different.

I did a store, then started the engine so DI5 should definetly be set to OFF now

 

http://www.paulr33.com/evo/knock2.zip

 

Thanks

[Scott]

Hi Paul,

I had a better look through your base-map and noticed you don't have an Aux Output setup as 'Knock Window' this is required by the knock block to send data back to the ECUs Digital Input.

Attached is the G4 KnockBlock manual. You want to set yours up like diagram 1 on page 6.

KnockBlock G4 Manual.pdf

[paulr33]

Thanks and I see the error in what I have done. I don't do any wiring works on my ECU as its too fiddle so it won't be wired in until September when it goes in for next service.

is the link box expecting to see ground signal on that wire? Can I just hardwire it to ground (the orange "window in" wire so that the knock box will still work? Obviously during the entire RPM range 

 

[Scott]

The ECUs knock control is able to determine which cylinder the knock occurred on by using the windowing function, and then retard the correct cylinders timing. To be honest I'm unsure what would happen if the window stayed at GND all the time. I suspect that the Knockblock would not output the signal to the ECUs digital input.

[paulr33]

until im able to wire in the aux input can i wire up a dummy knock led instead? at least that way i have working knock indication even if the ECU doesnt have it

[Simon]

If you wire in an LED to the Knock Block LED output this will work.

[paulr33]

If I mange to find a v44 plugin with a serial Ove 10,000 is it ready to go with CANBUS other than needing the right CANBUS plugs? 

[Simon]

Yes any ECU over 10000 has the hardware configured to operate CAN.

It is also an easy option to upgrade one that is below 10000 too.

[Dave Kriedeman]

Hi Paulr33,

if you live in Australia I can upgrade your ECU for CAN.

Regards

Dave.

[paulr33]

Thanks, but all good, I ended up buying another CAN enabled v44 and I'll that and swap it with my non CAN enabled v44 and sell it.

 

That was easier for me than having a non working car for a period etc

 

[paulr33]

Hi Paul,

I had a better look through your base-map and noticed you don't have an Aux Output setup as 'Knock Window' this is required by the knock block to send data back to the ECUs Digital Input.

Attached is the G4 KnockBlock manual. You want to set yours up like diagram 1 on page 6.

KnockBlock G4 Manual.pdf

Hi,

with this requirement can I connect the missing output from the knockbox to one of the pins on the expansion connector for Evo 9 plugin v44 as I have just ordered the expansion connector and it would be great if I could use one of the pins on that as it saves messing with my loom/exisiting writing 

[Scott]

Hi Paul,

I suspect on your ECU you will not have a suitable pin in the expansion connector. If by chance you have a later version of the bottom board of the plug-in ECU (with two 8 pin expansion connectors), then you will have something suitable available.

The other option is to sacrifice something on the main header. Perhaps Aux 4 - FP Speed - Pin 55. Are you still running the original fuel pump? A lot of people have upgraded and taken out the fuel pump speed control.

[paulr33]

thanks, ill have a look when the purchased Vipec V44 arrives... Looking at my tune Aux 5 to 8 were setup as "ISC Stepper" but I cant find in the documentation what ISC Stepper is used for? I asked on the evo forums and havent gotten a reply yet.

if it helps, the new V44 is;

 

Firmware 4.10.2

Bootcode Version 1.4

Serial 5224 (CAN enabled)

ECU Type 17

Hardware Rev 12

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by paulr33

[Scott]

The ISC stepper is what adjust the idle air that bypasses the throttle. If you were able to replace the stepper motor with a 2 wire idle solenoid you would have three additional aux output channels available.

[paulr33]

_{this is my newly arrived V44 with CAN enabled, can i use any of the shown plugs for AUX IN for the knockblock?}

 

[Simon]

I suspect not as with it being a V44 based unit the DIs will not exist on the main board.

The ultimate telltale will be to power the unit up and check what is available in the tuning software.

The Di's would be the only ones useful if they were available.

 

 

 

[Scott]

Further to what Simon said, you need an aux output available for the knock windowing, and that expansion connector does not have one, so you'll need to sacrifice something else.

[paulr33]

thanks, it looks like i can re-use aux 3 as thats for boost solenoid and im using an external boost controller

for anyone interested, evo 9 has 4 idle speed control steppers, hence why there is 4 x ISC's on the vipec, they are all different (aux 5 to aux 8 inclusive)

[paulr33]

hi team, i have the PCB Expansion connector wired in and all is well but I dont see the extra inputs displayed in VTS? does a sensor have to be connected or some "trick' to make the extra AN Volts / AN Temp's to appear in VTS?

[Scott]

Hi Paul,

No tricks. PCLink will display all possible connections, even if they are not actually available on the bottom board. This is because the PCLink software looks at the ECU type (V44 top-board in your case) and then changes what is displayed in PCLink/VTS. On a V44 top-board fitted to that bottom board only AnV6, Sensor Ground, and +5V are going to be available on the expansion connector.