G4+ Fury first tune 2gr-fe Turbo 92 MR2

[CDNMR2V6]

With the 2gr in the SW20 chassis it is quite difficult to see the timing mark (which is at an angle towards the front of the car). When I set up mine, I had a timing gun held on with zip ties and a GoPro on a little stand, then I had the GoPro app on my phone to see what the camera was seeing to get the offset value. It was a bit awkward to set up, but it worked like a charm.

Also, I don't think your wiring is backwards, the polarity of the electronic throttle body motor is wired "backwards" from the factory. I'm not sure about your coils though, I'd have to double check mine. 

[mjb214]

Yes I think it's a 23 degree angle tilt of the motor which is awkward.  Also the number 1 cylinder is under the intake manifold.  I stuck the gun way down by the pulley and just kept changing the adjustment until it showed up. 

I had a fuel leak and a back fire which lit on fire.  Fire extinguisher was handy but will have to pull all the wires off and recheck to see if anything is damaged.  Not to mentioned the fire extinguisher dust everywhere.

 

I believe we got it to 10 BTDC by using 190 degrees as the adjustment.  It still seemed off but the light showed it correct so once I sort out any damage my friend is going to stop by and see if we can figure out why it still isn't firing up.

 

 

[cj]

The K20z had a similar issue in that chassis because of the location of the engine mount. My fix was to align the factory marks by hand with the engine off, and then draw a new mark on both the pulley and engine block with a scribe and some white marker paint at an 8 oclock-ish location so I could see it easily through the wheel well with the right hand wheel removed.

[mjb214]

I didn't want to start another thread so I am going to continue the work here.

I ended up fabricating the whole exhaust before trying to start it again and working out a lot of other small details.  

I tried starting it again today and just couldn't get it going.  I believe I got the Crank Angle to be at the correct 10BTDC with the timing light, it took 205 in the calibration adjustment to get there.  I feel like either the injectors or the ignition is not correct.  I took a log and have the map attached.  Is there something obvious? 

Thanks for the help, let me know if you have questions.  I'll be digging through the help files as well.

-Mike

2gr-fe turbo base 2-27-19.pclr Log 2019-02-27 1_34_43 pm.llg

[Adamw]

Try -155 offset as well, you could be firing on exhaust stroke.  You have a lot of trigger errors recorded in your log, can you do a trigger scope, here's a video how:  https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiYbYlZQuRHPmieMTkwQDCXEb2LY

 

[mjb214]

I will be back to the shop Monday and will run the trigger scope.  It's about an hour drive, wish it was closer so I could step outside and run it quick for you. 

I tried several around the 150 range with no luck. We put a jumper spark plug wire on the number 1 cylinder for the timing light.  It appeared to be right at 10BTDC when I stopped but the mark wasn't shown every flash and I didn't want to just keep cranking on it.  We did 2-3 seconds each try and then change the timing and tried again.  We tried maybe 15-20 times at various angles.

I don't have my pullup resisters wired in yet if that might cause errors, I didn't see any errors coming up on the screen.  

[cj]

couple of things it might be, in no particular order:

Your throttle position doesnt look calibrated properly - TP main is between 2% and 5% different from TP Sub. This means there is a chance the throttle is actually at 0% and you wouldnt know. 

You could probably do with a bit more crank encrichment. I typically have between 150 & 200 in the 10*C column for 98 octane - a whole lot more on E85. you've currently got about 2/3 of this so its in the ballpark but a little more might make it start easier. This probably isnt your biggest problem though if its not even close to starting.

Your idle control is set to solenoid/stepper, rather than ethrottle. This means your idle correction values are not applying. This relates to my point above about TP control, and so insetad of the ECU commanding 6-7% its commanding just 2.5% which is probably not enough to fire up easily.

Regarding the trigger errors, yes there are a lot of them so its worth scoping to rule out, but you only see 3x new ones show up in the duration of that log and they are all right at the start of cranking. a handful of errors at this time can be normal on some engines.

Are you sure of the angle of that timing mark? if its 0 instead or 10/15 like you told the ECU when you timed it, or there are multiple marks and you're on the wrong one, then your timing could be completely wrong.

 

[mjb214]

CJ,

I calibrated it a few times, I'll go back and do it again on Monday.  I am running 93 Octane and most likely will stay with 93.  I'll look into changing the crank enrichment and see if it helps.

For the ISC I am just trying to get this started and idling to get it to the tuner who will actually know what he is doing.  Is there some basic things I can set up in there myself? I pulled it up  and it looks like Open Loop - E throttle is what I would want to work with.  I can ignore fan, power steering and park for now I assume since they won't be relevant as I am not letting it warm up yet, the power steering is electric, and it's a manual.  The A'C is not hooked up yet so also not a concern for now.

The tables seem like where I should start but what are some reasonable values.  The temp has been variable here 32F to 55F (0C to 13C) but it is slowly warming up here. (Virginia, USA)

I will certainly run the Trigger scope on Monday and re calibrate the throttle.

 

The timing mark I checked with the light so it should be at 10 BTDC and that is how I set it in the software or so I think.  It is hard to see as this motor wasn't intended to be in an MR2 but should be within a few degrees and shouldn't stop it from starting.  I'll be fine tuning everything with the tuner.

 

[cj]

Yep open loop ethrottle is what you want. zero out the a/c, p/s, park etc tables for a start then. if you leave values in them, they will get applied based on what the ECU thinks those systems are at. There is always a default value even if its not hooked up, and if the default value means "add in that table", then you can get unexpected things happening.

The short version is that the % in the base idle table will get added to the % taken from the AP target table. so 2.5% + ~4% @ 10deg. This gives you a much more reasonable starting TPS angle. once you have it running, let it sit at idle and warm up, and move the base idle values up/down until you get desired idle at that temperature.

[mjb214]

Thanks for the clarification, makes sense

[mjb214]

I was able to get up and work on it some more today.  The spark seems to be changing after 1 or 2 sparks could it be set to the wrong number of teeth on the Crank AS?  I took a scope and it looks like the Cam trigger is not working correctly, I had issues in the past with the wiring directions I paid for having a lot of stuff backwards, could it be because the + and - are swapped on either trigger? Could it be ground noise? ( I plan to follow the ground line back and verify it doesn't have anything T'ed into it that shouldn't be.

 

It also seems to stop sparking after 4 or 5 revolutions, could this be the computer realizing the spark is erratic and shutting it off due to being way out of timing?  When I set the timing per the first fire the it keeps moving each time. In case the trigger scope didn't save right I took a jpg of what it looked like. 

 

 

2gr turbo mr2 base.pclr Trigger Scope Log 2019-03-2 1_35_20 pm.llg Trigger Scope Log 2019-03-2 12_29_44 pm.llg Trigger Scope Log 2019-03-2 12_30_36 pm.llg Trigger Scope Logpm.llg

[Adamw]

Your cam sensor voltage only reaches about 1.3V, this is not enough.  I suspect you haven't wired in the external pull-up resistor as per the help file?  If not make sure you do the other cams connected to the DI's as well.  Once these are done turn off the ECU pull-ups.

[mjb214]

Adam, you were right.  I didn't think that would matter for start up and was planning to do it later but it the spark stayed steady at 10 BTDC so I gave it a go and it started right up.  Here is the new trigger scope and also the log from the first idle.  I don't have coolant lines hooked up so I only let it idle for about 20 seconds.

Can you take a look and see if anything stands out in the logs?  It says the ignition timing is outside limits,  I had set a 25 BTDC limit.  When I checked with the timing light it was at 10 before I started.  I had to unhook the light to reinstall the coil for the run so I couldn't check it during but I am missing something in the software?

Also the turbo was not connected to the intake so the MAP should be reading a vacuum.  it says 4-5psi.  is this reading in psia or is it psig?  I assume PSIA since it is absolute pressure but figured I should ask anyway.  Thanks for the insight.  I have a video of it running but wouldn't let me post it.  Here is a link if that works.  https://drive.google.com/open?id=1U_2_66uP-Hw3DhI8Lr6pry-2W-qaUpnx

 

 

2gr-fe turbo mr2 base.pclr Log 2019-03-4 2_11_37 pm.llg Trigger Scope Log 2019-03-4 1_40_31 pm.llg

[Adamw]

MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure, so 5psi at idle is pretty good vacuum.

The maximum ignition flag is active because you are commanding 35 deg in the main ignition table but you have the max advance setting set to 25deg.  This warning is just so you know you have hit the maximum advance limit.

If you were only seeing 10 with the timing light when the ECU was commanding 25deg then you need to set your trigger offset.    You can connect an old HT lead between the coil and spark plug so you can connect a timing light while it is running.

[mjb214]

Gotcha, I'll check it while the car is running and get that ironed out.  I didn't type in that We had a jumper in there but didn't have the right wires to be able to have it all go.  I'll look for some other wire to try and make it work better and have them in line.

Next I'll be finishing vacuum lines, and getting the coolant lines hooked up.  Then fabricating the intake/intercooler piping and buying/mounting the intercooler.  Then re wiring the gauges and hopefully off for a tune.  Still lots to do but felt great to hear it run.

Anyone have a base timing table they can shoot me for a turbo 2GR?  I haven't messed with tuning much but mine looks way too advanced.  I'll be having a real tuner do the real work, but I want to get it able to drive onto the trailer and test out to make sure everything is good before I start paying for someone's help.

 

[mjb214]

So I had it running last week, although poorly but running.  Got it up to temp but the thermostat didn't open so I shut down and just replaced it today.  I went to start it and it was running even worse and shut off after a minute or two of rough idle at 500ish rpm.  I thought I had set the target at 750 and moved it up but didn't have an effect so I am sure I am doing it wrong.  It seems very rich but I don't see a signal from the Wideband.  I am pretty sure the wideband is wired correctly.

 

Can someone take a look at the logs and the tune.  I am most interested in the wideband not reading, and the ignition and fuel tables.  I just want to get a stable idle so I can warm it up and make sure the fans and such work before I set up an appt with the actual tuner which will require and hour long tow. 

 

Thanks for the help again.  

For reference it's a 2GR-FE with a turbo in a 92 MR2.  Injectors are 525CC bought from Monkey wrench racing. Motor is stock from a 2016 Toyota Avalon with ~15k miles.  Link G4+ Fury.  

 

Also why does it show a oil temp which is way high and I don't have an oil temp sensor.  I tried finding it to delete it but gave up.

 

not starting.llg11-2-19 rough running tune.pclrrunning rough.llg

[cj]

you have fuel pressure problems. Either your pump isnt working or your FP sensor is dead. Your tune uses FP sensor as a input to the fuel table (which is good) but its reading 0-2psi for the entire of both of those logs. The car therefore thinks you have no fuel pressure and is running the injectors flat out.

If the sensor is right, your fuel pump isnt on, if the sensor is faulty, you'll be running is crazy rich. Either way, fix the fuel sensor on ANVolt6.

[Adamw]

And the wideband isnt working because you have it turned off.

[mjb214]

Thanks for reviewing.  I know I turned on the WB, perhaps I didn't save or overwrote it somehow.  I hope that's the case.  As for the fuel, it was at 44psi and working properly.  I already had ordered a fuel filter since I should have replaced it while it was out and forgot.

It is also possible it ran out of gas, which I didn't even think of at the time but also makes sense.  Even if it did run out it is super rich and running very rough, I guess to be expected since I am learning.  I hope the WB is working and it was just messing up.  

That aside, how can I get it to idle higher at cold start up.  It was 450-550rpm bouncing last weekend when it was running for ~5-10 minutes warming up.  When it got above 175F it still didn't smooth out.  When the thermostat never opened I shut it down at 220F and replaced that for this weekends test.  

Assuming I am just an idiot and the WB is fine and the gas was either the filter or empty, what else can I change prior to next weekend?  What Log would be most beneficial to review?  If I can get it running smooth I'll be able to finish up the W2A I/C pump wiring and get the seatbelts in for a test drive and then I can schedule my dyno time.  Since I rebuilt the trans myself I want to make sure there isn't anything wrong with the drivetrain before I pay for time.

[cj]

Normally the answer for more idle is more idle throttle opening. The table is based on engine temp already and looks normal, so something else is wrong here if you only see 500rpm.

Your ignition table is very conservative - espeically at low load/idle. Try adding 10 to each of the idle range cells (500-1500rpm, <80kpa) which should make it idle a bit higher too, and you can likely add 10 to everything in the red shaded area below. Just leave the 0 row 80&100 kpa cells at lower values like you have to make starting easier.

[mjb214]

Thanks I'll be replacing the fuel filter and turning on the WB and adding some timing and this next weekend try it out again.  

[mjb214]

I got the car running again, replaced the fuel filter and gassed her up.

The wideband still isn't getting a signal, I checked and it is getting 12V on Key on and 13V on running.  I let the car run for about 45 minutes. The thermostat is now working, the fans turn on and it smoothed out a lot with the timing advance I added.

I had to drain the water since it is getting cold here and I just had water in it for leak checking.  Next weekend I'll fill it up with coolant.  I have the WB sensor soaking in acetone as it was pretty black from how rich it was running.  It didn't look clogged, and I wasn't sure how else to check other than voltage.  

Any advice on the WB other than buying a new one and trying that?

 

Latest logs attached if you have any other pointers let me know.

11-9-19 no wideband signal.pclr running no wideband signal.llg

[cj]

Your lambda sensor is showing an error of "open circuit compensation resistor" This is the 6th pin that looks to go no-where and as far as I know run from this pin through a resistor in the plug to the ground wire. Have you done any wiring extensions or re-pinning of connectors towards the lambda sensor? Check power and ground to the lambda sensor by connecting them to a headlight bulb instead of the real sensor.

Couple other things I noticed that wont impact WB but are worth looking at

1) your cams sensors are all reporting errors that increase with run time - and your VVT offsets are all set to 170deg with trig2 VVT set 230 to match the help file, even though your trigger 1 offset doesnt match that in the help file. Have a read of the section on determining correct cam angle offset for VVT and run the tests it talks about to ensure you have the offsets correct. Maybe that will get your VVT to stop throwing errors.

2) Your TPS target tracking is a bit off when letting off the throttle. This shows as revs dropping slowly as the throttle is still open 2-3% higher than normal for a couple seconds after you get off the gas pedal. You will need to adjust the PID settings in ethrottle setup to be a little more aggressive. In extreme cases this can lead to the throttle getting disabled by the ECU if it sees a target tracking error for too long as it assumes there is a fault.

 

[mjb214]

I have not done any extensions to the WB wiring.  I checked that it was getting power and it was, but I will check the ground and investigate the 6th pin you mentioned.  The sensor was brand new and I was careful not to drop it or hit it on anything so I think it's in good working order.  Hopefully just a easy wiring issue.  I'll chase the ground. 

 

1) I saw the cam sensor errors but hadn't tried to tackle that yet.  I'll read through the cam section and try to run tests and figure that out this weekend.

2) Good to know, I'll look up how to adjust PID settings and see if I can figure this out. 

 

Realistically I want to get the WB working so I can setup dyno time and get the real tuner to look at this stuff, but the more I can sort out ahead of time the better.

[cj]

Also check that pin "MES" (on the fury pinout) is has continuity between the ECU connector and pin 5 on the 4.9 connector.