Simon Trent
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Posts posted by Simon Trent
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found this old thread in the g4+
https://forums.linkecu.com/topic/6744-4age-20v-multi-condition-vvt/
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im still waiting for 2 new wide bands in the mail. when u get that fuel table dialed in what do u do next? do i tune with vvt or without?
17 hours ago, Adamw said:Your tuner should be fired, what you are seeing is exactly the reason you cant use speed density with ITB's. It is a pretty basic tuning fundamental. You will need to start from scratch in Alpha N. Set up the TP axis with fine increments at small openings, then you can use bigger breakpoints as it opens more. I will attach a 20V fuel table that you can import as a starting point.
VTC cams generally you only need to switch based on RPM - as all intake resonance is related purely to frequency. Generally the way to find the best switch points is to do two dyno ramps, one with VTC off for the whole run and one with VTC on for the whole run. Overlay the two run power or torque graphs and the best switch points are where the two lines cross.
You can do a table if you wish but it is not normally needed, I suspect the factory was doing that only to reduce pumping losses at low loads for economy/emissions.
how do i make a vvt table?
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here is some tunes to give a better picture. im very new at this and really dont know what im doing.
tune i went to the dyno with.pclx tuners map.pclx tuners map with duel fuel map attempt.pclx
5 hours ago, Adamw said:Your tuner should be fired, what you are seeing is exactly the reason you cant use speed density with ITB's. It is a pretty basic tuning fundamental. You will need to start from scratch in Alpha N. Set up the TP axis with fine increments at small openings, then you can use bigger breakpoints as it opens more. I will attach a 20V fuel table that you can import as a starting point.
VTC cams generally you only need to switch based on RPM - as all intake resonance is related purely to frequency. Generally the way to find the best switch points is to do two dyno ramps, one with VTC off for the whole run and one with VTC on for the whole run. Overlay the two run power or torque graphs and the best switch points are where the two lines cross.
You can do a table if you wish but it is not normally needed, I suspect the factory was doing that only to reduce pumping losses at low loads for economy/emissions.
how do I use this fuel table?
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we did get enough runs to find the best switch point to have the vvt on and off. i find the vvt is very inefficient at part throttle cruising. We also know how much fuel we need at wot from vvt on to off to the limiter.
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7age 20v silvertop (stock cams), ls1 map, stock injectors, 11.2 compression, 1nzfe coils.
hello i have a 7age 20v silvertop, i got the engine running and driving with 1nzfe coils. took the car to a tuner that does alot of hondas. we tuned the fueling with map and rpm. tuner was insistent that he tune with map only. he did well with the wot and we did some road tuning to get the cruising working well. big problem i noticed when i drove home was at highway speeds up hills the map was peaking out at 30% tps so there is a large rich area between 30 to 80 tps. i found out about alfa n tuning so i have been trying to road tune the part throttle using a duel fuel table set to overlay. i have no idea if this is the best solution or not. i also want to know if there is a way to fine tune the vvt like the picture. currently im using 2750 on, 6000 off and on at -0.2 mgp, all three conditions have to be met. really wish there could be a table used where tps and rpm could be plotted out like factory.
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no injectors yet they are being cleaned but it fired right up on brake cleaner.
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i unpinned the ground wire for coil one and put a new wire to the battery ground and ran a test and it works now. i think my problem was reusing the power and ground that went to the stock 20v coil is the problem. the ground wire must go threw the 20v ignitor and was keeping it working. even though if i had the ignitor pluged in and grounded to get 12v at the coil it still wouldn't fire. got some rewiring to do tonight.
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wired in 1nzfe coils into pinout ports 7 8 17 20. i have 12.6v going into the coils. trigger scope shows a proper square wave but i get no spark during cranking or threw a spark test.
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going to try those settings this week. car is on jack stands with a noisesy gearbox. time to pull it for the 7age. getting a e51 rebuilt for it. i have been very pleased on the power gains over the stock ecu.
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I changed the ignition idle target to 25 degrees to get good idle at startup after 10 seconds it goes to its normal ignition of around 26 degrees. I wonder if this is a product of changing to a tps based ignition table.
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A new problem I have found. The ignition angle is stuck at 10 degrees after startup for exactly 10 sec everytime the car is started.
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15 hours ago, Simon said:
Trigger scope signal to me looks good.
But the log is showing the trig 1 error counter jumping up to 5 at the point of the miss.
Assuming the trigger scope was done at idle You could raise your arming voltages
I would also check the plugs are resistive, leads are 100% (no suspect crimps or wire damage) check the cap and rotor for any signs of tracking.
Yes the log and scope were at idle.
Going to try those settings tonight if I can get home at a decent time, been filling in for the painter at work thats on vacation.
What do you mean by tracking?
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oh thats nice. my silvertop is doing the same thing. hwat soaked iat sensor after a drive go to restart car it starts hard and wont idle for the first 15 secs.
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here is a log and trigger scope
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13 hours ago, Adamw said:
Yeah sounds like the tech really knows what he is on about, the toyota distributor is a reluctor, it doesnt even have a 5V supply.
Please just do the scope as requested, it will take you all of 30 seconds and will likely show us if it is a wiring issue or settings issue.
With the engine running and laptop connected, go to >ecu controls>trigger scope and click capture, then save.
oh I didnt know the ecu could do that. This stuff is very new to me.
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10 hours ago, Adamw said:
You still can do a trigger scope at the RPM it occurs at tho?
i can probably get a scope to test it. I did talk to a retired toyota tech and he recommended checking all the wires going to the distributor. he thinks there could be a corroded wire that is giving a weak 5v. said he has seen it before.
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6 hours ago, Adamw said:
Unlikely related to the pull-up. What type of sensor is it? You will probably need to connect an oscilloscope to see what is wrong with the signal.
The signal comes from the MR2/AW11 dash cluster that is being driven from a cable from the transmission, it was recommended to use a pull-up becuae the stock 4a 20v ecu apparently has it built into the ecu
6 hours ago, Adamw said:Dont over think it, optimum valve timing is mostly related to RPM - you are wave tuning and the frequency is a direct effect of RPM. The factory may have used a 3D table for emmisions or pumping loss reduction, but it is not needed for best performance. I have tuned 4 or 5 20V 4AGE and all of them have wanted something very close to below for the cam switch points. The 0.2s off delay is the hysteresis to prevent it rapidly cycling on/off.
Yeah it will be a lot easier to dial that in when I get the 7a on a dyno. have you found the fuel consumption can be better having the VVT off on highway cruising? To get to events I travel like 2 1/2 hours and fuel economy is important for that reason.
6 hours ago, Adamw said:Will need to see a log and tune and a triggerscope taken at around the same RPM this trigger error occurs at.
It does it at idle and 3500 rpm and lower, and when you first touch the throttle it does it. also at idle when its doing it, it seems to do it in a pattern about 4 or 5 times then stop doing it until I touch the throttle again.
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Installed this 3sgte Gen3 pnp ecu to run my 4age silvertop and later my 7age that I'm building. I also plan to install a set of 1nzfe coils using the standard 4age 20v hal sensors for crank timing. The 7age will be dyno tuned so the warn out 4a is being used as a test mule. Currently the engine runs and can be road tuned and i have seen a nice increase in power over the stock 4age blacktop A/T ecu I had used for 8 years.
A small issue I am having is the speed sensor is reading the correct speed but it constantly jumps up to 65535, I have done some digging and asking and a pull-up resister is recommended for that issue.
Next small issue is the VVT, I'm currently using the same pin for VVT control, reprogramming the FPR to a VVT but not knowing how the VVT settings work in the laptop software I have programmed a Tvis into a makeshift VVT having the VVT come on either at 35% throttle or 5000 rpm. i would hope there is a better way to do this because the factory VVT control is activated depending on a rpm/TPS chart. Note: it has been nice for a few autocross events to lock the VVT into a 2300 RPM activation so the VVT pulley isn't being cycled over and over during a autocross run thus saving wear on the VVT pulley.
Now for the major problem I'm having, the crank angle reading is intermittingly dropping to 0 rpm and going into a safe mode for 10 sec or so where the engine is idled up and timing is fixed at 10 degrees. This is making road tuning very difficult because when the timing locks 10 degrees fuel tuning is impossible to get right. I have read that maybe a pull-up or pull-down resister might fix this problem but wanting to get some expert help before i mess something up.
Optional request: Below is a picture of the stock wire harness for the 1nzfe coils, I would like to have some help on the best way to install these onto the ecu to run them. I'm hopping to have them working for dynoing the 7age.
Also any recommendations on what spark plugs to use with my 7age, lightly ported head, 11.2 compression 93 oct fuel stock cams. This isn't a max power high rpm build, i just wanted a refreshed 4a and a very nice 7a kinda dropped into my lap so more cubes doesn't hurt.
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so its just 2 wires that go into the can connector on the main board?
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just watched this. this might be a nice way to go.
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how do i connect via CAN?
I also have no idea what CAN is.
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getting a 3sgte gen3 G4X pnp ecu working with my 4age 20v silvertop that was running a blacktop A/T ecu.
on the centre plug on the engine loom i have moved the knk pin to make the 20v almost all pnp.
im very new to electronics for engines i had my current hybrid harness (20v / 16v bluetop) made by someone else and have used it for 8 years.
I have one expansion loom for the ecu.
My main question is what is the best way to wire up the vvt and an AEM x series wideband to the ecu, please for anyone answering this go into very fine detail.
7age 20v itb tuning
in G4x
Posted
post it up. im up for learning everything i can.
so awesome, thank you.