MarcelB
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Posts posted by MarcelB
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.....When is the next release carded for?
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Hello there ! any updates on this?
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UREKA!!!!
turns out the issue was really located at the NEW ID 1000 primary injectors but it wasn't what I thought! After pulling the intake manifold apart I removed the primary rail to access and swap out the injectors for some old 450s to see if anything would change. With the rail in hand I pulled out the ID's and looked into the injector bores in the fuel rail , to see that the alignment between the fuel rail and the injector bores was grossly off(the injector tops left an impression in the aluminum ) , causing the injector bores to be blocked by the rail reducing the hole by approximately 70%!!! this was a strangely EXCELLENT find !! .After drying my eyes I quickly got my pencil grinder and opened up the bores in the rail to restore the alignment , re-assembled it all and ..............sure enough it started right up and idled in the 13,s!!!! IT FINALLY WORKS!!!! I think I need to take the blame for all the heart ache though , the manufacturer of the fuel rail makes an excellent product , but because I am running an aftermarket intake manifold set I had to make custom supports/spacers for the primary rail , apparently this threw off the alignment of the bores , goes to show that everything should be checked and re-checked especially when making modifications to stuff! Thanks every one for you interest and assistance. -
Yes , we (myself , my engine builder and my local ViPec dealer) checked everything over and over again with the same results , everytime we think its fixed its starts up all over again like its on a timer. I started to suspect bad or failing injector drivers on my 88 so for the last check we plugged in a brand new V88....and sure enough the motor did the exact same thing . I am now down to one last check, since the issue is clearly fuel related I am going right back to the original suspects ,the fuel injectors ! this may be hard to believe but is totally logical since I replaced all the injectors in my last build and I have already eliminated everything else.
Question ; is there any "special" setting apart from the dead times and injector type (saturated ) settings for the Injector Dynamics fuel injectors?
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The rule for any dash that is using the serial data stream is to disconnect at the ECU plug when tuning is being done.
This is because the same data is being used for both tasks and having two devices connected is likely to cause issues.
I've never read or heard about any such rule , maybe it should be stated in the user manuals?
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Hi all , I think I should post up some of my recent experiences with the Racepak dash and my V88 .Previous to the last firmware upgrade , the laptop/VTS would be bumped off by the dash when it is powered up causing me to have to run a separate kill switch for the dash, no biggie. Now, since the last upgrade I've noticed that the laptop/VTS would do the bumping causing all the sensor values on the dash to go to zero which I thought nice allowing hassle free operation but!........Since this started I also started to notice some strange behaviour by the laptop/VTS when connected .First off it would take forever to connect , the progress bar at the bottom right corner would load about 10 times before it gets online, whilst online changes entered via the keyboard would sometimes be ignored often causing it to disconnect then reconnect , when programming there would be none or partial interpolation of rows, sudden and random disconnecting and reconnecting and a weird storage error message when F4 is pressed. Finding the root cause of these issues took me one whole day , but I prevailed so all ,please BEWARE!
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Turns out this was not the problem ! Still haven't fixed it yet , the ECU was tried on three different cars where it worked perfectly , will be looking at completely re-wiring with a pair of brand new harnesses.
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Yes , i've traced it back to bad grounding in a "cheap ass" $20 Ebay bulk head connector :!: :oops: at this point I am just going to rejoin the harness and hope for the best :!:
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Hi Marcel,
The injection mode is locked once the engine is seeing RPM, this is a safety thing, engine damage could be caused if the injection mode was changed while the engine were running.
Normally if the engine is applying any sort of ignition or fuel cut it will show in the runtime value window. The only way you are going to be able to truly tell is by examining the injection and ignition outputs on a scope. I know you said you do not have one, or access to one, but it may be worth spending the money to pay someone for half an hour to see what is happening.
Scott
I would if I can find someone to pay ! since the ECU we interchanged exhibited the same behavior , would it be possible for you to put my map in another 88 , connect it to your emulator and see what it does ? this way I can then narrow it down some more to maybe the car itself.
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that map limit seems a bit low to me, did you check from the logs that its not hitting any limits? are the limits configured as fuel cut?
i had an issue in the dyno where from the MAP logs it looks like i'm not hitting the limit, but since the log is slower than what is actually
seen by the ECU the map limit status went up and it started cutting the ign.
Yep , experienced this during first start up so ive since turned it completely off.
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ttachment=2]Capturelimits.PNG[/attachment]
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So my dealer came over with a vehicle running another V88 , we swapped them out reloded maps and the 88 out of my car had the other vehicle (SUBARU) idleing smoothly whilst mine was doing the same thing
:evil: One thing we noticed though , whilst starting and looking at the FUEL MAIN screen a pad lock appeared next to all of the parameters in the menu , once it started up they all disappeared except the one next to INJECTION MODE parameter , shortly after the motor is cut ! seems like the software is cutting the engine for some unknown reason . Since both ECUs are doing the same thing I have ruled them out along with any electrical issue , I intend to find my previous laptop which would have my last configuration (which I used to start up another rotary a month ago) install it an see what happens.
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Just a question, what is your fuel pump? How many liters per hour? How many liters per hour is your injectors at 100%? Do you have enough fuel pump to run injectors like this? I would think you would at least need 2 magnafuel 625 to even come close to fueling this thing..??? Also, wht size is your fuel line for the amout of volume this thing will drink, you should have I would think -10 at the minimum and a -12 fuel rail to hold the volume at the head of the injectors...
The pumps are twin BOSCH 044's the fuel feed line is -10AN fuel rails are -10AN also , fuel pressure regulator is an Aeromotive PRO ,and fuel return is -8AN.
Sounds like a very frustrating problem. It´s a little bit stupid question, but after you discovered the kink at the fuel line and the blocked filter, did you put your tune back to the state where it was before the problems started and you are not flooding the engine with huge amount of fuel?Yes , it definately is :!: :oops: .....nope not a stupid question ! I did normalized the map and set the pulswidths back to where they were (the low 20s ) when the car was behaving itself. I am now making arrangements with my dealer to get another V88 to try out in the car to verify the "set-up" in the car is good, if it works without problem then it will indicate that the ECU is at fault (as I suspect) .
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Hi Marcel,
do you have any filters inline after the one that was blocked.
I see you stated that you cleaned all of your filters.
If there are no filters after the one that was blocked, is there a possibility that some material has entered the new injectors and blocked the filter baskets.
Have you done a fuel pump flow test.
Yes I have another filter in line located in the engine bay , an AEROMOTIVE filter with a 100 micron element,I do not think the filter baskets are blocked because the 100 micron filter was very clean , the previous set of (new ) inlectors were clen when I removed them and now the second set of (new) injectors are behaving the exact same way.
Have you done a fuel pump flow test.
Yes I did a simple flow test however I did not quantify exactly how much fuel was flowing but it was avery healthy flow ,also when I am doing the checks the fuel pressure remains where it is set which is at 43psi without a flicker of the needle. I suspected that the pressure might be good but that the flow was being blocked somehow , this is why I went through the system ,found and changed a kinked hose and changed the fuel supply configuration to the rails from series to parallel.
Do your sparkplugs indicate that the engine is definitely lean ?
No I did not pull the plugs , I figured that they will tell me the same thing the wideband and motor behavior is saying to me plus its a lot of work :oops:
Looking at your PCL file, you have your master fuel at 20 MS, with an extra trim of 5%.
What is your static fuel pressure ?
Static pressure is 43psi
With such large injectors and a load value of 40 at idle on a small displacement engine, one would imagine that your AFR would be very rich.
Yes normally it would be half that !
However if the sparkplugs are fouled or wet the AFR can read lean due to higher amounts of unburnt oxygen in the exhaust.
Nope I do not think they are fouled , if they were the motor would never kick.
Hi Marcel,How is the compression on the engine, a damaged or worn apex seal can cause lean mixture readings also.
The compression is great! Its a brand new motor which hasn't been run yet!
I am just throwing you a few extra thoughts here, diagnosing issues such as you have are very complex without the vehicle in front of you for testing.
You may have done these tests and checks already, but I have not read anything indicating you have, so I thought I would mention them.
Regards
Thanks for taking the time to respond !
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Yes , yes and yes , I haven't even connected any of the digital inputs except for the engine start position. Today I disassembled the fuel system I order to run separate feeds to each rail , I found the braided hose which connected the rails was kinked !!!! since the gas flowed from the secondary to the primary rail ,I am hoping this kink was restricting flowand causing the problem,i'll post again when I am done.
Nope !! wasn't that !!! I did get it to start but it wouldnt idle, afr's were around 15.5 :1 and the values in the map were in the high 40's !!! So to ensure the fuel system wasn't at fault I went ahead and pulled all the filters in the system all were clean except for the first one located immediately on the discharge of the pumps , it was 100% plugged ! I could've filled it up with water like a beer glass, I was actually happy to find this since it would've properly explained all the symptoms I am getting , so I cleaned it up replaced it and ........NOTHING ! same S@#%T different day , at this point I do not know what to check again , maybe its time to send it back to you guys to check and repair :?: please advise. -
All signals like MAP TPS etc are on the money at key on?
Engine RPM is correct, no anti theft turned on on the ECU or ecu hold power active.
Yes , yes and yes , I haven't even connected any of the digital inputs except for the engine start position. Today I disassembled the fuel system I order to run separate feeds to each rail , I found the braided hose which connected the rails was kinked !!!! since the gas flowed from the secondary to the primary rail ,I am hoping this kink was restricting flowand causing the problem,i'll post again when I am done.
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So we suspected that there was an issue with the injector voltage supply , maybe something was causing it to attenuate so I did all the voltage and continuity tests and put in a relay which supplies power directly from the battery just to be sure .............. NO CHANGE :x problem still exists :!: :cry:
Moved the ECU power from the power distribution system to the battery through a relay (same which now supplys the injectors) , the afr's are better (13+ to 14+) but still not good , I've had to open increase the injector pulse widths from 22-25 ms to 38-45ms!! so now I'm thinking it could be a fuel delivery issue!! At present I have the fuel rails set up in a series configuration with gas flowing from the secondary rail to the primary rail , i'm going to sepsrate them and run them in parallel to see what happens.
Are you able to get a PC log as it leans out and what would be really good is a scope image of the injector drives.I can't get a log now because it starts up and runs for about 3 seconds then stalls and no I don't have a scope but I will see if I can get one but what really confuses me is that it started up an ran fine on both sets of (brand new) injectors , so why would they be causing a problem now??
I have had the sam issues with staging also.. I fought is so much and I started using aux injection instead and have had much better results as it does not pull fuel away from the primarys.. I run my primarys on q16, and my 2300cc secondarys run on methanol, this setup has been a dream and easy to tune... Just a idea for you to try..It is not a stsging issue , I cant even get it to start and when it does it idles for about 5 minutes then it leans out and stalls.
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So we suspected that there was an issue with the injector voltage supply , maybe something was causing it to attenuate so I did all the voltage and continuity tests and put in a relay which supplies power directly from the battery just to be sure .............. NO CHANGE :x problem still exists :!: :cry:
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sorry for the OT but DAMN! this sounds like an interesting build! please add pics and videos somewhere once the problems are sorted out.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1255 , I guess some folks only look at THEIR OWN cars when they go over to the other section !!
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Hi
Only thing I can see that I would call as out of the norm is the settings in the Sec Injection Table
I have attached an image of what I would run.
Since the secondarys would be off at this point I don't see how this would help , but I'll try anuthing right about now :|
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How do you have the injectors configured.
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Please explain what you are asking here.
Number and size of primaries and number and size of secondary injectors.The staging set up does look odd as you are gearing to run most of you flow through the secondaries.
I have a pair of 1000cc primaries , one per rotor and two pairs of 2200 secondaries (yes 4 in total!!!) , yes I did set it so that most of the flow would be through the larger secondaries since I plan to push the boost on the turbo/motor to 30 psi.....its a HUGE turbo, Any ideas where I should start to check ?
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Do you have access to an oscilloscope? If yes it could be worth looking at the injector drive output to confirm if this is the problem.
No , I do not own one.
Also check the injector settings (peak and hold currents) if these are too low it can cause issues with the injectors not opening or being very lazy to open.You can also use the test injector function to confirm the injectors are firing with out having to run the engine.
The injectors are high impedance ,http://www.injectordynamics.com/IDInstructions.html , as for the tes function , i've used it and both of them respond fine. My local dealer has installed it and run it on another car for 2 hours and according to him it runs perfectly so I guess I'll be looking at the tuning again. :cry:
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I'll have a look over your base-map. In the mean time can you do a PC Log of the car starting up and then the problem occurring? Make sure you are logging all the parameters including wideband.
Cheers,
Scott
I did another test , I staged the secondarys to turn on in vacuum and at 500RPMs ........the motor remained idleing and was able to be revved out and driven! so I guess this means I have a couple of bad injector drivers :!: :cry: I will be removing it and sending it to my local dealer to verify in another vehicle , will post what we find.
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Fuel injectors were the problem , DO NOT buy from 5 O MOTORSPORT!
NOPE THEY WEREN"T !! Man this is so frustrating ! I am experiencing the same problems with the brand new ID1000 injestors , so I guess there was nothing wrong with thw 550s in the first place. I think I need some help with this , Scott ,Simon ? anybody ? have a look at my map and see if there is anything there.
.....When is the next release carded for?
turns out the issue was really located at the NEW ID 1000 primary injectors but it wasn't what I thought! After pulling the intake manifold apart I removed the primary rail to access and swap out the injectors for some old 450s to see if anything would change. With the rail in hand I pulled out the ID's and looked into the injector bores in the fuel rail , to see that the alignment between the fuel rail and the injector bores was grossly off(the injector tops left an impression in the aluminum ) , causing the injector bores to be blocked by the rail reducing the hole by approximately 70%!!! this was a strangely EXCELLENT find !! 
AFR Safety System
in ViPEC V Series
Posted
This is VERY DISSAPOINTING to know :!: After all the years of support it seems like us "V" series owners have been chucked on the side to make way for the new product and can only be "TRULY" considered again if we put out $$$$ (again) for an I series computer :!: