summonme Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 Why did you want to know what he`s maximum boost are going to be? Just curious, i`m a beginner to Vi-Pec myself and are trying to learn. It`s really nice that you take your time to help! And if i understand correctly you dont work for Vi-Pec, you are just a helpful enthusiast? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted May 11, 2014 Report Share Posted May 11, 2014 He probably want to know how high he needs to span the maps. No point in spaning it up to 4 bars when you are only going to run 2. you would just loose resolution that way.. Yeah i think he is "only" a nice enthusiast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi, I haven't forgot about this project. I have been very unwell with extreme pain for the last couple of weeks. I am on large doses of very powerful pain medication, so my brain doesn't work correctly while under the influence and it makes me sleep a lot. I have just come back from the doctors again for different medication again, tonight. I have been working on the PCL file for this along with a few other jobs. I needed to know how much boost he wants to run for many reasons, boost cuts, boost control target tables etc, working out what his final fuel pressure will be with static pressure plus full boost pressure etc. Spanning the Y axis on Fuel and Ignition tables and any other tables that will be MAP,MGP etc based AXIS. The more information I can gather the easier it is to set things up. Setting up PCL files for cars that aren't in front of you is quite difficult hence for the many questions. Yes , you are all correct, I DO NOT WORK FOR ViPEC. I enjoy helping others where possible. When I first started I could only ask a random question here or there, I didn't have the luxury of FORUMS or the Internet for help. 99% of what I know I have taught myself through testing , reading and studying etc. It is something you never stop learning. I have been doing this stuff for close to 20 years and there is still so much more to learn, I had many frustrating times trying to sort out issues etc. This is why I try to HELP where possible. I also strongly believe in the product and love it's capabilities. Sure there maybe some things people wish for that aren't possible in earlier versions etc. But for a very fairly priced ECU it sure is loaded with some very impressive features. There are also many ways to control devices under certain operating conditions etc. So by getting involved and helping those out seeking help, I in return learn as well. No one has ever done everything. So having a go at everything that crosses your path will expand your knowledge base 10 fold. So in the process of helping you, at times I am learning also. That is what this FORUM is about, NO BULL$%@T, just cold hard facts and many suggestions to help you all in the long run. Regards Dave. iliasfyntanidis and b3tuning 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi Dave, Will it be easier to use the old Ignition table that I used with my last years setup? The difference was: Power-FC ECU Power Enterprise 850cc injectors OEM coil pack OEM 55mm throttle body MAF sensor I hope you get well soon mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 12, 2014 Report Share Posted May 12, 2014 Hi mate, I will create a timing table to start with, however if you wish to post it up I will take a look at it. Or post up your POWER FC tune, I have FC EDIT. By the way we can throw the MAF sensor away, if you haven't already. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi Dave, Sounds great. I can post the FC tune once I get to the garage (31 km away from where i live). The MAF sensor is long gone. Sold it with the Power-FC and the 850cc injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summonme Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I know Shadow has had some trouble with adjusting the stock trigger to 15 degress BTDC, i think he settled with 12 and it was taken into account when mapping. Are there any way to manipulate that via software? When running other trigger setups like one sensor on the crank and one on a cam for sync there must be some way to set this up in the software? Dave deserves some money for beer Shadow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Dave deserves some money for beer Shadow! I totally agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi, I am starting to feel a bit more alive now. I have attached 2 different calibrations for your AEM MAP sensor. I have also attached the injector dead times for the id 2000"s at 43.5 psi. I think in the PCL file I will create for you that I will set up the injector dead times for 50 psi fuel pressure, considering you are using E85 and aiming for 29 psi of boost. I am still considering which cal I will use for the MAP sensor. Sorry about taking so long to get this done, but I am either bombed on pain killers making me sleep or in to much pain to do anything.. I will build you a complete PCL file but also build you a layout to add to your layouts. I like having nice looking layouts. Do you have the cam timing events for your camshafts. I need the following info if available, that way I can build a 3 D injection timing table to suit your engine. I need to know how many degrees the INLET VALVES OPEN and CLOSE. I need to know how many degrees the EXHAUST VALVES OPEN and CLOSE also. Do you still have active variable intake cam control. Do you have verier (adjustable) cam gears or just standard. If you have vernier gears can you let me know how many degrees advanced or retarded the gears are. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Hi, Can you please supply me with a compressor efficiency map for this turbo or a link. I can't even find this turbo listed on the Precision website. I am trying to calculate if this turbo will generate 29psi of boost in it's efficiency range or not. It maybe able to produce 29 psi but at what sacrifices, eg air temp 80 degrees c. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Dave, It is good that you are starting to feel better. I hope that you are recovering fast. I can't find the compressor map for the PTE 5128, but I asked for it on PTE's facebook page. Here is the link to the turbo on PTE's website: http://www.precisionturbo.net/turbochargers/aftermarket-replacement/details/Aftermarket-Replacement-Turbocharger---5128/75 The camshafts are 256° IN/EX with 11.50mm lift IN/EX. I also use adjustable cam gears, so the VVT is removed. The EX cam gear is 0°, but i can't remember if the IN cam gear was set to 2° advance or retard. I think it was 2° retard but I need to double-check. The camshaft came with a data sheet, but I can't find it for the SR20DET engine on the internet. It says a little bit about it in the intro I found tho: http://www.tomeiusa.com/_2003web-catalogue/efr-set_camshaft_rset.html I will fetch the data sheet at the garage in the morning (the time here is 2.30 am now). The layout looks neat! I have a built-in pc in the car, so I will run iVTS online for this purpose I got two PLX gauges in the glove box for backup. Is it possible to add warning sounds/flash in iVTS? Maybe summonme got some more inputs if there is anything I forgot to mention? He is my adviser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi, I will need to know the exact valve timing specs of those camshafts and also the amount of advance and retard used on the vernier gears. With removing the hydraulic solenoid activation for the inlet cam gear , is there some form of oil restrictor fitted to the cylinder head to stop or restrict the oil flow. Is your engine S13,S14,S15. I have attached a screen shot of the valve timing events for a Tomei Pon Cam to suit a Toyota 4AG 5 VALVE, to give you an idea of what I am after. Knowing the lift and duration helps, but I really require the actual valve opening and closing timing events. Advertised or at 0.050 preferably advertised. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Dave, The car is a S14(a). I haven't fitted any oil restrictor on the IN cam after removing the VVT. The only info I can find for the Tomei poncams is this: The Tomei Poncam camshafts are designed as a drop in replacement. No dialling in required as the knock-pin has been pre-set so that the cam timing it set for you. No valve spring upgrades are required and is the cheapest and best upgade for street and track use. This is all relevant info I can find. The last page is a sushi menu: If you still need the valve timing events I can contact Tomei, but I'm not sure if I will get any answer from them. Here is the P-FC map I used last year: 200sx_pfc_final.rar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi mate, It appears that getting the timing events is going to be a mission. If I had the car in front of me I could find out with a degree wheel and dial indicator etc. If cam valve timing events are available to me I use them in setting up the tune. However considering that these are just PON CAMS, there isn't going to be much gained in this department anyway. They are not a radical camshafts. I strongly advise checking if some sort of restrictor or blank off is required , or do you simply leave the old solenoid in place to stop oil flow via the inlet VTC Does the solenoid just stay in place and remain turned off. Is it recommended that you remove the cam solenoid. I have done a few RB25DET Skylines with Tomei PONCAMS and left the VTC active without any clearance issues with the cam lobes and the cylinder head. If the VTC can stay fitted and active we will make more power with being able to adjust the inlet cam electronically. But this is purely your call. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi, I had a look at your Power FC file, looking at your timing table I assume you were running E85 fuel or the likes. I also noticed you had no air temp compensation settings for the ignition. (brave). What are your average ambient air temps over there, summer , winter etc Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Dave, I didn't want to remove the VTC, but I had to since I changed the valve springs to "Supertech Dual Valve Springs Kit SR20DET 265 lbs". Summonme told me that the VTC would have died very quickly with so strong valve springs. For the inlet cam I had to change the VTC bolt to a shorter, so I guess the oil is blocked by this. The VTC solenoid is still there for now, but disconnected. I was running E85 on the Power-FC. I was only using the MAF for this setup. I didn't have the MAP or IAT sensor. The average air temp in the summer is 18°C and -10°C in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summonme Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 We haven`t set up the cams that way, so there is no info on valve/timing events. Our summer temperatures are rarely over 25 celcius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Here is the answer from Precision: Precision Turbo & Engine Hi Niklas, We do not have compressor maps available for our turbochargers as they can only show theoretical performance. We spend our R&D in real-world scenarios so that we can apply that knowledge to producing the best turbos possible. If you need help in selecting a turbo, please call us at 219-996-7832. Thank you! Thank you for the answer. I already got the PTE 5128 and I want to run it at 2 bar of boost, but I just wanted to make sure if this was in it's efficiency range or not. The engine is a SR20DET. Precision Turbo & Engine That may be a bit much for the that turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I know Shadow has had some trouble with adjusting the stock trigger to 15 degress BTDC, i think he settled with 12 and it was taken into account when mapping. Are there any way to manipulate that via software? When running other trigger setups like one sensor on the crank and one on a cam for sync there must be some way to set this up in the software? Dave deserves some money for beer Shadow! Hi guys, are you running the factory CAS (CRANK ANGLE SENSOR) unit on the front of the timing cover. The factory CAS produces the trigger 1 and trigger 2 signals we require. Step one, remove number 1 ignition coil and fit a HT LEAD (SPARK PLUG CABLE) into the coil and the other end onto the No1 sparkplug. Attach the timing light to the plug lead. DO NOT USE THE INDUCTION LOOP AT THE REAR OF THE ENGINE OR THE COIL DRIVER WIRES THEMSELVES. Using the sparkplug HT LEAD METHOD is by far the most accurate. Also avoid using DIAL BACK TYPE TIMING LIGHTS, What I do next is loosen the 3 CAS mounting bolts , i rotate the CAS so that the bolts are centre to the slots on the CAS housing. I tighten the bolts up and never touch them again. You need to then go to the FUEL SETUP table and then the FUEL MAIN tab and set INJECTION MODE from sequential to OFF. PRESS F4 to save to ECU. Go to the Triggers tab and select CALIBRATE, double click set base timing. Crank the engine and adjust the TRIGGER OFFSET until the timing light lines up with 15 degrees or what ever value you set the Ref Timing to. Once you have adjusted the offset to match your Ref Timing press DONE for now. Go back to the Fuel Main Tab and reset the INJECTION MODE from OFF to SEQUENTIAL again. Now press F4 and save to ECU, also press F2 and save to the file or create a new one. Now crank the engine and fire it up, let it get warm, go back to Calibrate and recheck your timing with the engine idling, adjust the Trigger Offset if the timing isn't at 15 deg. Then bring the revs up to around 2000 rpm and recheck the timing is at 15 degrees, if not adjust the offset to correct. Now let the engine idle, press F4 save to ECU and F2 save to the file. Now rev the engine and watch the timing mark, with the TEST BASE TIMING page open, if the timing moves from your set value of example 15 degrees adjust the IGNITION DELAY value until the timing stays stable on 15 degrees. If all is well and the setting is correct the timing will be rock solid on 15 degrees. However on some engines with cam driven sensors with rubber timing belts you will get some variation in the timing due to belt harmonics etc. Adjust to the least amount of movement as possible. Quite often you will end up with the timing retarding slightly as you rev the engine. Adjust to achieve the minimum retard as possible if you can not achieve the timing to stay solid and not move. I did an R34 GT-T the other day and the timing kept retarding 10 degrees, no matter what ignition delay number I used, it would retard 10 degrees every time. Out of curiosity I hit F12 key and checked triggers and had 22 trigger 1 errors. Everything else was perfect' Replaced sensor and everything was perfect. R34 GTT, FMIC kit, dump pipe and exhaust, stock turbo 12 psi boost, no other mods at all, made 310 hp on straight BP98 fuel. I thought that little Precission turbo would be struggling to make 29 psi of boost. Did they state what a safe efficient pressure would be for that turbo. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Dave, Nice guide I am using the factory CAS for now. The plan was to use 2 trigger sensors. 1 at the crankshaft pulley and 1 at the cam for sync, but we didn't finish up designing/modding the parts. Step one, remove number 1 ignition coil and fit a HT LEAD (SPARK PLUG CABLE) into the coil and the other end onto the No1 sparkplug. Attach the timing light to the plug lead. DO NOT USE THE IDUCTION LOOP AT THE REAR OF THE ENGINE OR THE COIL DRIVER WIRES THEMSELVES. Using the sparkplug HT LEAD METHOD is by far the most accurate. Also avoid using DIAL BACK TYPE TIMING LIGHTS, What I do next is loosen the 3 CAS mounting bolts , i rotate the CAS so that the bolts are centre to the slots on the CAS housing. I tighten the bolts up and never touch them again. This is what we did using a inductive timing light and rotating the CAS. But that wasn't enough. That's all we knew how to do with the Power-FC tho. We will follow this guide, but can we do this without the proper injection settings? I ran the Precision turbo last year at 25,5 psi of boost during the whole season. Both on and off track. It worked pretty good After we did some boost setting tests, I forgot to tighten the hose clamp on the actuator... Never been in a car with that much power before! I stopped fast to fix it again tho. That is not healthy for the turbo! I find it a little odd that Precision didn't gave me any straight answers at all. Here is the chat: Precision Facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summonme Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 It's hard to tell where we will hit the limit with this turbo, but there are several Garrett GT2871 turbos that are running at 2 bar and are having great results. The PT5128 is precision's counterpart to the GT2871 and it's natural to aim for similar performance/boost pressures. We need a pcl so we can start the car, do some fuel mapping and get it to the dyno. Both of us appreciate your help Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 All good, mate do you want single stage boost or dual or 3 stage boost. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summonme Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 What is the function of these "stages"? I have been told you can switch between two settings/tables. As you understand, we are new to Vi-Pec and need to understand the basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 Hi, I will setup these stages and get the PCL file finished off. We can discuss the other options etc at length afterwards. A brief over view, we can have a low boost conditions, high boost conditions, ,gear dependant boost levels (different boost level every gear), valet boost levels etc,etc,etc. You can do lots and lots of cool things with the i88. I will get the PCL finished so we can start this thing up and get some tune into it . Do you have TEAMVIEWER on your laptop, that way I can log into your ECU via your laptop and help tune the engine from here in Australia. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summonme Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 I will let Shadow answer this one, after all its he`s car and he`s engine. I`m just the sidekick. Its a i44 plug-in by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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