Jason Conklin Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Hello, today i was trying to make a comunication with a new g2 ecu and i found that this was not posiable. i checked the led on the side near the tunning port and i saw that this was not on but will flash one as soon as you turn the key on and an other flash as you turn the key of. after that i check the power supplies and all the grounds that where entering the ecu and i found these to be very good. have you got a clue of what might be please? thanks jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashesman Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 OK, the LED is doing what is supposed to... dont ask why, but that is what it does... As far as comms goes, I need to know how you are connecting to the ECU. are you using a direct serial connection, or a USB-serial converter? Have you selected the correct com port in the PCLink options-connections menu item? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tor Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 I had this problem the first time I was going to install a customer`s G2....I was using a laptop with USB only, so I had to use an USB-serial converter. The problem was as simple as me forgetting to assign the correct USB output on the laptop....... Tor Racefix Motorsport Norway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tor Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 I remember having problems getting a trigger signal on the G2, the car we put the G2 into was a late-model T-25 Escort Cosworth, which is the only cossie model running 36-1 triggering at the crank. I first tried to run 2 pickup points at the crank, as I would do on older cossies using a standard Weber Marelli inductive TDC sensor. It wouldnt give a reading. I then hooked up the OE inductive pickup on the 36-1 wheel and then I had a reading instantly........strange. The problem with using this pickup was that I couldnt move the sensor around to get the base timing right, so it ended with me having to remove the woodruff key on the crank, and moving the pulley itself around to obtain the correct timing. I then applied LockTite bearing glue on the crank and fixed it in the correct position. The car ended up a complete stunner, it goes like shit off a shovel, I guess its got around 350bhp @ 1,5 bars of boost and runs 10 times smoother than it did on the OE Ford EECIV management.So could your problem be the trigger pickups? Do you see any triggering take place in PCLink? If you dont, try another type of sensor, that worked for me on the Escort....Or could your problem lie in the ignition department, if your ignitor(s) arent working you wouldnt get a spark for the timing light to flash off.......Just some thoughts....Tor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tor Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Jason, did you choose the correct type of triggering in the trigger setup menu? And are you sure that 4213 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tor Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Sorry.....is the correct firing order for your engine? The symptoms you describe suggests its wrong...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 tor, you cant imagine how much im appriciateing this conversation,thanks for that. well i selected the triggers as multi teeth+1sync and i entered the number of teeth which are 24 .both of the sensor are relucter. those are as trigger set up. as for the firing order,this engine should run a 1342 but when i tried to start up in the set i had 2 big bangs in the ex system(bacfire). so after that i tought that is in the opposite cycle(instead of having piston 1 on the compression stroke it was on the ex stroke) after i decide to turn the firing order to 4213 which come the same but on the other way of cycle.i dont know if you understand this. as soon as i tried to start up in this mode the engine started up but im still having these problems. after thet i tried again 1342 and the engine didn`t want to start,back to 4213 and the sart again. whay are you saying that is something in the firing order? the symtom is that is something in the firing order cause i already made a couple of cars after other mechanics with the same symtom and it was the firing order the problem,but now im reaaly stucked mate and i dont know what i have to do cause i tried every bit of my knowledge. thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 tor, im also having the trigger 1 error counter that is climbing when the engine is working and value climbed up to 255. thanks jason HIPER DEVELOPMENTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tor Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Well it certainly seems you have a trigger problem, I wouldnt be surprised if it has something to do with the trigger setup....Just a thought: If there are 24 teeth, and one missing, it would be 25-1, right? Not 24-1?Like on the Ford Zetecs, they are 36-1, so when tou count the actual teeth (or holes in the flywheel), there are only 35 of them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 tor, no the honda set are like this 24 teeth without missing teeth.and that is for rpm pick up. there an other 1 with 4 teeth and that s for crank position and theres ano ther with 1 teeth and thats for cam position. understand that?that s why i told 24. these set up are not like the cossie ones and other ford model,i know ford mosels very well especially cosworth . the 36-1 and 60-2,these type of trigger wheels have basically 2 function,1 for rpm and for crank posotion. am i right on this? honda set up are different. my suspect is on the trigger or igniton system but ive duoble and triepl check and everthing seems fine. thanks jason HIPER DEVELOPMENTS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashesman Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 To put it short ... If you have a stable RPM value during cranking and the trigger error counter is not incremeting then the triggering is most likely OK. If you have either problem then there is a triggering issue. The 24-1 and 36-1 thing works like this: enter the numer of teeth the wheel should have (24 or 36) and then select the number of missing teeth. The reason for entering the number of teeth it should have is to allow the ECU to calculate the degrees between the teeth... The most important thing is after you have a stable RPM signal and no trigger errors (of course you will have the injection mode set to OFF while checking this) is to set the base timing (trigger calibration). If the offset value is not correct (like 180 out) it will appear as though the firing order is wrong. Dont correct it with the firing order or sequential injection will not work.Unfortuneately setting up triggering can be tricky, but it is the price paid for having a fully configurable ECU... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted November 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 thanks for the reply, my trigger wheel does not have missing teeths,it is a honda wheel in the distibutor so how can i enter a value of a missing teeth? if i enter the firing order 1342 as it should be and i have the trigger ofset right(10btdc)with the timing light when im crancing with the injectors switched of and im having backfires,how should i fix this problem? after that i made the firing order 4213 and it started but with unsatble running ect ect. how can fix this problem?? how can i leave the firing order 1342 and adjust the trigger ofset to get it started? thanks jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashesman Posted November 27, 2006 Report Share Posted November 27, 2006 If you are using the four tooth wheel for trig 1, then use '1Tooth per TDC' and use the single tooth for sync. If using the 24 tooth arrangement then use 'Multi tooth' and use the single tooth for sync.  Now, it is important to realise that the trigger offset value is not what you want to see with the timing light. Set the reference timing to the numbers you are going to line up with the timing light (eg 10 degrees before TDC), then turn the lock to reference function on, crank the motor and adjust the refenecnce timing value until the timing marks line up at 10 deg BTDC. It is obvious from the fact that you have to change the firing order by one number that the offset is going to be around +/-180 degrees. The firing order WILL be 1342 when it is sorted. We need to start from scratch... What sensors are wired to where? How are they wired? Are the polarities of the sensors correct? Can you get it to crank with a stable RPM value and no trigger errors? Being a honda, are you using the inverted ignition drive for the factory igniter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted November 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 im running the 24 tooth and the one sync. i dont have the honda ignitor coz i have a f channel m&w; cdi with the stock dizzy just for trigger signals. now i have the 24 tooth sensor wired to the trigger 1 in the ecu and the 1 tooth sync the the trigger 2. till now everthing is ok? so you are saying that i should leave the firing order as 1342? so how do you explane that when i changed the firing order to 4213 is started? thanks for the help jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashesman Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 The reason for making it start when using the odd firing order is becasue your timing offset number is incorrect. The trigger setup is OK. Make sure your reluctors are wired with the correct polarity (I cant stress enough how important this is!).  Use 'Multi-Tooth' trigger mode. Set 'Sync Location' and 'MultiTooth Location' to 'Cam'. Trigger priority setting wont matter. Set 'Tooth Count' to 24. Heaps of people have used the M&W unit with the G2. Set up 'Ignition Mode' to 'Direct Spark' . Set firing order to 1,3,4,2. Wire ignition 1 to cylinder 1, Ignition 2 to cylinder 2, ignition 3 to cylinder 3, ignition 4 to cylinder 4, injection 1 to cylinder 1 injector, injection 2 to cylinder 2 injector etc... Very important to check these are correct. The last thing (and I suspect you only problem) is the setting up of the trigger offset value. A .pcl file we have here had -78 as the offset value (that may or may not suit your engine, and will definitely not be exact as the distributor can be rotated). You should follow the correct procedure for setting up this value with a timing light (look in PCLink help). It could be a value anywhere between +/- 360 degrees. If the offset is out, then the ECU will think the engine is in a different position to what it actually is. That is why changinmg the firing order helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 thanks for the reply, with the firing order 1342 i already set the trigger ofset and i saw with the timing light that it was good (mark on pulluy with stationary mark. my problem is that in this order when i turned on the injectors the engine didn`t want to start. all other thing are set as you described. thanks jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashesman Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 You can be 360 degrees out on your firing order and still flash the light in the right place (remember two turns of the crank for one sync pulse). No.1 piston will be at TDC, but the valves will be at end of exh/start of intake position. Changing your firing order by two numbers means you will shift it by 360 degees... Add 360 degrees to your offset number if it is already negative, or subtract 360 if it is already positive. So, if it is on -70, add 360 to get 290. Or if it is 70, subtract 360 to get -290. I am pretty confident that this will fix the problem you are having... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashesman Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Just noticed in your email to the tech's, that you are still getting trigger errors... You must fix these before doing anything else. Is your ECU setup for your motor? Does it have the correct sub-board fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Conklin Posted December 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 thanks for the interest it should be with the proper sub board. i buy my ecu s from thor racing n uk. maybe you can send them an e mail and ask for lyndon sharp. thanks jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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