Guest |260| Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Hello All, I am new here, just learned of ViPec and am contemplating buying a system. In constructing the system on paper for quote i am trying to figure out what coil to choose. The engine is a BMW E30 M3 S14, 4 cylinder. Pretty straight forward application. Should not have any needy spark requirements and top out around 8,000 RPM. I see the LS1 coils on the ViPec site, but those look like they will require fabrication to mount fenderside. These were included in the original quote by my vendor, but it seems like I'm going to have to build a mount for them. In further searches, both Accel and MSD offer Ford 4.6 type 4 tower replacement coils that look like a much easier adaption to my application (looking to mount one coil on an inner fender and make 4 ignition leads). I am very curious what all you guys are using, for those who are using common universal fender mount type coils,,, and any reasonings, technical data, etc. Thanks in advance for any info you care to share. I am sure I will have many more questions if I move forward with this system, but first I need to spec the system and get a quote... Cheers jim pettinato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Hello Jim, The advantage the GM LS1 coils have, is they have an internal igniters. Any other coil you use, will either need to be the same, or you will have to mount igniters on your inner guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |260| Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 thanks Ray. Please forgive my nwwbie questions. I assume if I got a 4 tower 4.6 Ford type coil it would be running wasted spark. If so does it require 4 ignitors (1 per cylinde) or just 1? Next question,,, If I were to opt for a non LS1 coil setup, where would one purchase these needed ignitor(s)? Thanks in advance for your help. Cheers Jimmy p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsh Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Hi Jim A 4 cyl coil pack require a 2 channel igniter. 1 channel for each coil. You can use Bosch 0 227 100 200 igniter which your Vi-PEC dealer can supply you with. Wire like this: http://www.vi-pec.com/techdata/Bosch200_2coils4cyl.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |260| Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 thank you very much Ben. The coil I was looking at specifically were 4 tower Ford based units produced by MSD and Accel to be replacements for Ford 4.6 coils. I now know from your post that i would need a dual ignitor for a two / twin coil pack as illustrated. Would it be same for a single 4 tower, or would there be a different single ignitor for the single 4 tower type? Do you have any input as to if there is any advantage to a dual "twin" coil set vs a single 4 tower unit. I am posting from my iPhone so I cannot paste links to the coils I am refferring to, but I assume both you and Ray well know which ones I am writing about (way more than I do). Thanks for the schematic and the insight Cheers Jimmy p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Speed Tech Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Jimmy, Good to see you on this forum! The Vi-Pec will run with a large variety of coils. Ray is right in that the advantage of the LS-1 coils is no external igniter module is needed. The MSD ones will work great too. I've done E30 M3s with three different coil combos, which all work. I've used MSD Blaster SS coils with wires. I've used a Mazda 6 4-cylinder coil with wires (dual output.) I've also used E46 M3 coils to give you fully sequential ignition; they also require igniters. These are really nice and give a stock-looking appearance. Don't let igniters scare you off - they're simple to wire in and don't add a lot of cost. If we build your harness, we'll have all this in there, or we can guide you in doing it yourself. With your application, you really have a lot of freedom because its not especially high-revving, is naturally aspirated and doesn't run terribly high compression. I would look to see something that easy to fit and has good appearance; most modern coils are going to work out excellent in terms of performance. We have the ability to test whatever you choose to determine the optimal settings for use. -Neel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |260| Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 thanks Neel, first for the reply and secondly for steering me here to this forum which is a wealth of knowledge. Ok, I'm off to look at coils and come back to you with a choice for your approval and then we will get on with this I think. If you do not mind me asking what coils did you use on Bob Ts M3 install. Cheers Jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |260| Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hey Guys, In doing some research and giving this more thought I am leaning towards using a coil similar to this MSD-8241: To qualify my rational, 1) Its based on a stock Ford coil, used in all Ford 4.6s from 95 to 99, so emergency trackside replacements are at any local auto store in anytown USA. 2) Its only $70 for the MSD offering, so buying a main and a spare at the onset is pretty darn reasonable 3) Its only one single unit, so failure troubleshooting is reduced. Its one unit, not two or four. It either works or doesn't work. I dont have to ever diagnose "which coil" may be dead or dying. 4) Listed at 40,000 volts, its well qualified for the job. 5) Mounting would be dead easy, and no additional fabrication required. I see a 4 tower Bosch unit on the ViPec site. Any thoughts or comparisons? This looks like two separate twin tower coils mounted together so it would lose advantage # 3 listed above. I also do not know its parent application, so it loses advantage #1 above The largest disadvantage to my above approach is I (believe) I cannot have the option to run sequential spark with these coil types, but for my application (in my limited knowledge and research) wasted spark should be more than adequate. Any thoughts or input? Cheers jimmy p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |260| Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 As an update, I may be reconsidering my coil selection further. It appears the Ford type 4 tower coil I posted abovel uses some fucocta Ford only type coil connectors which may be difficult to obtain to make custom wires for the E30 M3s S14 engine. I will likley opt for a different type of coil, possibly the Bosch unit shown or possibly this Accel 140028 unit with "European Towers". It seems this type of Ford EDIS coil superceded the one in my previous post with the proprietary locking connectors, in 1999 and later Fords (prior to COP), so Im thinking this is the one to go with, or still possibly the Bosch. Cheers jimmy p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Speed Tech Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 If you do not mind me asking what coils did you use on Bob Ts M3 install. Used a Mazda 6 coil which is essentially a ford coil. These are all "dual output" coils which means that they fire 2 cylinders at the same time so you're running in wasted spark. You give up coil energy and the ability to trim cylinders. I'd recommend running a single coil per cylinder. This looks like two separate twin tower coils mounted together so it would lose advantage # 3 listed above. They all are separate twin tower coils mounted together. Its just that the Ford and MSD can't be separated because they were mounted in the same housing. I would not let ease of diagnosis and replacement drive your decision. If you do your wiring right and are not in a severe heat situation (which is unlikely on a mild NA car like yours) coil reliability issue is not an issue. We run cars at the 24 Hours of Daytona using street car coils with few failures. In fact, most of what's been called "coil failures" were actually harness or connector failures. If you run 4 coils and carry 1 spare, you'll be fine. Another coil I might recommend are late-model motorcycle coils. I've used Suzuki GSXR1000 coils with lots of success. -Neel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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