Patrick Patterson
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Posts posted by Patrick Patterson
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On 7/8/2022 at 2:41 PM, RKGarage said:
Still looking for one mate?
yeah i am, do you have one?
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1 hour ago, Adamw said:
Ah yeah, sorry brain fart. The wasted spark/2 stroke timing light mode is only needed for advance timing lights which you already said you didnt have. A static one doesnt care if it is wasted or not.
Yes, it sounds like potentially EMI noise or an electronic "ground bounce" type effect if filtering helps which is why I was asking about the trigger errors and dwell instability earlier as those would usually be present if there was noise being interpreted as "edges". A trigger scope taken with filtering at level 1 compared to a scope taken with level 4 filtering may be good enough to see something.
That's really the only thing I could put it down too. This is a trigger scope with engine off filter level 1 and the fuel pump still running. Also been advised to put a suppressor on the IGN feed to DFI module if that would be any help? and shorten the earth wire that feeds it also. I've got the loom out so I will run shielded cable from the triggers to the DFI and back to the ecu. And I will pull some timing out of the tune, but it really should handle 28* all day long.
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39 minutes ago, Adamw said:
Ah I looked back at the first post in this thread and it was a G4 Storm, I didnt notice this was an older post that had been recycled. So yes you can set up knock control but you will typically want audio equipment also to verify the setup is detecting real knock correctly.
Does your timing light have a wasted spark or 2 stroke mode? As a normal timing light without this feature will show double the real advance with wasted spark ign.
Timing light works with wasted spark. from the ecu we can lock it at 0 and read 0 and lock it at 28 and read 28 no worrys. Like I said earlier, applying level 4 filter on trig 1 fixed the fuel pump issue and steadied the spark issue. So just wondering if its more likely a trigger issue ie: getting noise at higher rpms
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I don't know if it does or not. I will have to ask the old man. I think you might know him Tim Patterson from Engine Rebuilders in Wanganui.
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When I built the loom for this boat, it was running the standard ECU (which had lots of problems inside the memcal chip). So we simply got the link and wired it into the box I had the standard one in. So there is no shielded cable for the triggers. The HT leads that go over the engine for cylinders 2,4,6 lay over top of the trigger wiring to the DFI unit and close to the loom that goes to the link. Could this play a part in the advancing? getting to much noise at higher rpms thinking the engine is in a different position? The way the timing light showed it, is that we were 56* BTDC not 28*?
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I have a G4+ xtreame, has 2 knock inputs
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Ok will do. Any recommendations only setting up knock sensors on this? Or would it be better to have knock audio to listen too?
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Not that I saw or remember sorry.
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Testing it with a static test light. Happened most the weekend. I changed the filter on trig 1 and it seemed to stay stable.
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12 minutes ago, Adamw said:
Base timing should be set with it running in normal mode with ECU controlling timing (ie bypass pin at 8v and est commanding timing). When you remove the 8V it just fires a spark exactly on the edge of every tooth on the 3 tooth wheel. So that is purely controlled by the position of the wheel on the crank and from memory that is about 10BTDC.
I see 1 potential problem in your map, the spark duration is set to 3ms, I would drop this to 1ms. This setting is used for distributor ignition where you have to charge the same coil say 6 times per cycle. With a distributor at high RPM you often run out of time for both a full spark duration and full dwell, so if the ecu knows the spark duration then it can reduce dwell so both fit in the available time. So this is potentially shortening your dwell in some cases.
Ok I can change that, but would that cause the issue of it advancing past 28BTDC?
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10 hours ago, Adamw said:
I would go with Motec's suggestion for the dwell as below. It looks like the values they have chosen is to achieve roughly a duty cycle of about 50%. Note however, if the dwell is too short or the EST signal is lost the module just defaults to bypass mode - this drops timing back to a fixed base value around 10deg. It shouldnt cause it to advance from its base value.
Also, when the Trigger Ref was set, should that have been done with the DFI in bypass mode or not? So with engine idling remove the 8v or est it should in theory show 10BTDC. Cant really think of anything else that cause it to advance, at a guess some points would have been in the 50'sBTDC. if you look at the map file I sent, trig 1 has level 4 filtering, that stopped the fuel pump continuously priming. No idea what to check over next, any thoughts?
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23 minutes ago, Adamw said:
I would go with Motec's suggestion for the dwell as below. It looks like the values they have chosen is to achieve roughly a duty cycle of about 50%. Note however, if the dwell is too short or the EST signal is lost the module just defaults to bypass mode - this drops timing back to a fixed base value around 10deg. It shouldnt cause it to advance from its base value.
Ok I will load that on. Just can’t work out why it’s over advancing from the maximum of 28
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On 2/27/2022 at 9:20 PM, Adamw said:
Note only the VR onwards has a cam sensor, the VN & VP didnt have the cam sensor.
DFI Module pin C - connect to Link Trig 1.
DFI pin F - connect to Trig 2.
DFI pin B (bypass), connect to Link 8V pin.
DFI pin A connect to Link Ign 1.
DFI Pin L to Link pin A7 (Shield/Gnd).
DFI pin P to +12V.
DFI pin K to Ground.
Cam + 2 x crank sensors connected to DFI module pins N, M, J, H, G, as per factory wiring.
ECU settings:
Trig mode Multi tooth. 18 teeth, multitooth postn crank. Hall/opto, pull-up on.
Trig 2 sync mode Cam pulse 1X. Hall/opto, pull-up on.
Ignition mode distributor, spark edge falling.
Hi Adam.
what would you set the dwell time too? I have it all working, but the the ignition will come over the maximum advance. Reading on motecs site they say that if the dwell time is too short the dfi ignores the est signal. Any help would be great.
blown 2 sets of head gaskets from detonation.
cheers patrick.
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On 3/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, Adamw said:
I dont sorry, I have never touched one with the cam sensor. You will have to determine offset with a timing light.
Hi Adam.
will do again once I get the heads back on the motor during the week.
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On 3/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, Adamw said:
I dont sorry, I have never touched one with the cam sensor. You will have to determine offset with a timing light.
Hi Adam.
have got this all running. Sometimes the fuel pump primes and stays going. When this happens in the runtime values trig 1 says yes. Give a slight crank and it says no and works perfect. If I wire up the starter motor control through the ecu will that over come this problem as it hasn’t sensed the engine has requested to crank?
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hey does anyone have a tune file for a v6 ecotec going in a jetboat?
cheers
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On 2/27/2022 at 9:20 PM, Adamw said:
Note only the VR onwards has a cam sensor, the VN & VP didnt have the cam sensor.
DFI Module pin C - connect to Link Trig 1.
DFI pin F - connect to Trig 2.
DFI pin B (bypass), connect to Link 8V pin.
DFI pin A connect to Link Ign 1.
DFI Pin L to Link pin A7 (Shield/Gnd).
DFI pin P to +12V.
DFI pin K to Ground.
Cam + 2 x crank sensors connected to DFI module pins N, M, J, H, G, as per factory wiring.
ECU settings:
Trig mode Multi tooth. 18 teeth, multitooth postn crank. Hall/opto, pull-up on.
Trig 2 sync mode Cam pulse 1X. Hall/opto, pull-up on.
Ignition mode distributor, spark edge falling.
Thanks for that info Adam, what would the tdc off set be set too?
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On 2/24/2022 at 10:48 PM, Adamw said:
I would do it a bit different that quoted above. Is your engine the later one with a cam sensor or just the two crank sensors?
Also have a link extreme G4+
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Yes ecotec, 2 cranks and 1 cam sensor. How would you do it instead?
Cheers Patrick.
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I have a holden v6 ecotec, will this also work the same? getting the storm G4X
Holden ecotec V6
in G4+
Posted
this motor is in a jetboat, have had it running. Have tuned it to a degree. but having a massive problem with detonation. max timing is at 23btdc. really just wondering how the triggers should be set up. crank trig is 18x multi tooth, and cam is cam pulse 1x. both have pullup resistor on and both set to rising. wondering if one should be set to falling? seems like it gets out of sync by about 20btdc.
cheers patrick.