gunnerthesnowman

Who are you directing this too ?? :?

Seriously , i do not know how i am going to use the IAT table for a fuel correction when the IAT is not changing , if you tuned the main fuel table for a good AFR when the engine is running at 40-45deg using the warm up enrichment map in the link , and then if the snow conditions changed and the engine warmed up to max operating temp . 80-90deg. ( thermostat opens ) the warm up table would be pulling fuel.??

Did not know that you did not agree with the help link manual in the vipec software program , the problem i am having is not at WOT , it at idle and low end ( say 50-60% ), my last tuner had it set up with a warm up enrichment table that looked like the one you have posted on here and i was not having this problem , from the warm up enrichment table that you posted up here (http://www.vi-pec.com/bin/StartUpSettings.png)it pulls over 20% fuel from 40deg. to 90deg. ECT on low end (50-60%), I guess i am not understanding way the table you posted is set up this way when you are saying the ECT has very little to do with the engine fueling from 40 to 90 deg.. I hate to call it Quits on this standalone , but after 3 years and alot of money and two tuners and it is still not set up right i am at the end of my rope. Thanks Curtis

If the IAT is 20 deg with the engine at 90 deg, then it is not possible for it to also be 20 deg at 40 degrees. The IAT will be lower and the IAT fuel correction will adjust for the different air density. I think, you think the ECT is what the ECU uses to correct for air density changes. This is not really the case. The engine coolant temperature is the temperature of the intake ports, inlet valves and the walls of the cylinder and head. It is not the temperature of the air when it gets into the cylinder. The heat radiated from these items does heat the air, but it is not the actual temperature. Also the higher the engine speed the less these items effect the air temperature in the cylinder. So a engine at WOT at 40 deg C and another at WOT at 90 deg C will have much the same radiated heat from the ports, values and cylinder walls. The IAT when mounted in the intake manifold will give a much more accurate indication of the air temp when it gets into the cylinder. This is why the IAT fuel correction table is critical on keeping the AFR correct under all conditions. The ECT warmup table is used to assist the with the correction when the engine first starts. Ray.[/quot No i do not think that the ECT is what adjust for the air inlet density , from what i have read in the vipec "whats this" the warn up enrichment works off of ECT to add fuel to get the correct AFR when the engine is below normal operating temp.(90deg.) because of fuel condensing on cooler cylinder walls, piston top etc , , so by the time the engine reaches operating temp. (90) the warm up enrichment has pull fuel to keep the right AFR.at normal operating temp. And yes it is possible to have the same IAT (20deg.) {My IAT senser is after the intercooler before the butterflys to the engine } At ECT of 40deg OR 90deg. On a sled , the coolant is cooled in tunnel heat exchangers , when i am riding in deep powder , the snow from the track going up on the exchanger keeps the coolant at 40-45deg ( there is a bypass around the 80deg. set thermostat) so IAT is 20deg and ECT is 40deg. Now , on the same day the IAT is 20deg. and i drive the sled down a hard pack trail , no snow going up onto the exchangers and the engine coolant temp will rise until the thermostat opens (80-90deg.) for more cooling , so IAT 20deg. and ECT 90deg.!!

Yes , i understand what you are saying and do not think that you were/are ignoring my Question , If your warm up enrichment table ends ( all 0 ) at 40 deg. , what happens if you drive your car to work with a ECT of 40 deg and IAT of 20 deg. , then drive it to work with a ECT of 90 deg and IAT of still 20 deg.,!!!

All i am asking is , should,nt the warm up enrichment map be in affect ( no 0 in table ) until the engine is up to full operating temp.(80C) , with it being set to 0 at 40C , then there is no fuel correction from 40C to 80C , looking at the warm up enrichment table that you have posted on here , it is still adding over 20% fuel at 40C , by the time the ECT is up to 80C , the warm up enrichment is 0!!

Hi , i have a V88 installed on my turbo charge sled , the engine coolant normaly runs around 45-50c (internal termostate bypass ) so the tunner had the warm up enrichment table set at all 0 at 40C ECT , the fuel table was mapped with the set up this way , problem is in warmer weather or higher engine loads the ECT rises to 80C before the thermostate opens for more cooling , tune goes really rich due to the higher ECT. I have found a Warm up enrichment table on here that Ray has posted , My ? is , do i install this table and retune the engine with the new warm up enrichment table active with the ECT at 45-50C Thanks

So using MAP or MGP for the ignition table Y axis , will not afect baro correction !!

Hi Ray , when making the changes , i notice that Jim did not have it set up the way you said you told him to, he had it set up like this Fuel Equation Load=MAP AFR Table = On Fuel table Y axis = MGP Ignition table Y axis = MGP /// You told him to set this to MAP AFR table Y axis = MAP I Have set it up the way you said it should be Why would he have it set up this way and what kind of problems would of it caused me in tuning !

Thanks Ray , TALKED TO JIM TODAY , MADE THE CHANGES , HEADING OUT Monday for 2 or 3 days of riding to remap , will let you know how it works out. quote="rayhall"]1. Turn off the 4D table and turn on the IAT Fuel correction table. Select MGP for Y axis of Open Loop AFR table. Turn off the Ignition table 2, as the values in this table cannot suit any engine. Turn off the 5D ignition table, no values in the table so it not being used. Change Trigger 2 filter level to 2. Retune the engine before running it again. 2. The open loop table is a lookup table used by the ECU to know the air fuel ratios the engine should run. This table is open loop and does not require any narrow or wideband 02 sensor signal. The ECU uses math to know how to correct the air fuel ratio. If you search on this forum will find this discussed many times. 3. If the whole fuel table is tuned, the tune will be correct no matter what boost you run. No 02 sensor is needed to correct for more boost as your tuner would have tuned for higher boost. 4. Your ECU is a marine version. It is full of epoxy and cannot be pulled apart to do the modification for CAN. 5. I will send Jim the table settings. 6. You should not need to use Closed Loop Wideband if the engine is tuned correctly. To set it up CLC Wideband, the tuner needs to find the best settings for your engine. Ray.

Thanks Ray for all your time on this , i which i would of come on hear and asked this months ago , so with this done , just retune the engine , (1)and it should make the kind of changes automaticly that you see in my two maps i sent you !! (2) what does the open loop AFR table do!!! , (3)whats will happen down the road once i have my map retuned , if i want to run it in close loop for off boost for fine tuning. (4)Also i asked in my other post what mods have to be done to my ECU (serial # lower than 10,000 ) to get it to run the 4.8.0 soft/firmware so i can run my AIM dash on the con+/- feeds , so i can have both the dash and PC connected at the same time . Is it just programming or adding somthing in side , remember it is a sealed marine unit , what are we looking at for cost to do whatever is needed , (5) and yes please send me / Jim the settings for the IAT fuel correction table , i will talk to Jim about the need for this , so i will not waste time tuning not having the ECU set up right . This is a learning curve for me too. (6)For close loop lambda , i take it that i should set to WB close loop V-2 , if so under gain control table what should my (1) AFR error settings be (2) close loop control rate (Hz) be Also (3) Map delta lockout Once i have a good map made , i may try running in CLL for 2000-6500 rpm,s up to 40kpa to see if it helps clean the low end up a bit !! Sorry for all the ??,s but i losted most of the season tuning because of this baro correction not being set up. PS. I thank you again for having this forum and taking your time coming on hear to answer ?,s , great product support . Curtis

Thanks Ray , yes it is a marine unit , so it is set correctly , looking forward to what you find out when you run may map on the engine semulator , as i mentioned before the two things i see that happens to make the map to be changed so much is , the turbo spools into boost lower in the RPM,s and the fuel pressure drops off as the barometric pressure drops ( the fuel pressure regulator does not compensate for barometric pressure changes , if you set it to 42 psi at 90 kpa baro , at 80 kpa baro it will run 37 psi ) Thanks again .

Thanks Ray , i unpluged the dash cable at the ECU and all went well with the PC , what has to be modified on the older units $$$$$$ ???

Hi Ray , what should the barometric sensor be set to , MARINE OR STANDARD , what is the differents between these two setting ???? Mine is set on marine!!! Thanks

OK , let me see if i have this right ,With the way i have my AIM dash connect now thought the serial communication protocol (RS232 )---- when out tuning , every time i connect to the PC i have to disconnect the dash cable at the ECU end , OK then when finish with the PC i reconnect the dash , DO I HAVE TO UNPLUG MY PC CABLE FROM THE ECU END (USB PORT) TO HAVE THE DASH WORKING RIGHT ???? . ( the only problem i have with the dash is the decimal point is off in the pressure / temp. readouts ) I thought i have read in the post called " CAN COMMUNCATION " that with the new soft / firmware 4.8.0 i can connect my AIM dash up to ( CAN H - CAN L ) , so i can run conected to both the dash and my PC at the same time !!!!.

Ray is working on my tuning problem , i should of told him about this as well , ever since we installed the new (then )software / firmware (4.7.1.804 ) , so i could run a AIM dash , i have been having problems with my unit when tuning ,it keeps kicking me off line , happens a lot when trying to save!!! , also will not give me my data logs , keeps saying the the logger is on , you have to open it 1 to 10 times then there your logs !!! also if you try to upload a map it does not take it . The AIM dash works with the new software / firmware , but it does go off line when you have a PC connected and on my readouts of pressure , AFR and Temp. the decimal point is off by one place , so oil pressure is 55.7 it shows 5.57 I see that there is a new software / firmware ( 4.8.0.994 ) out that looks like it deals with these problems , but it says that it will only work on unit with a serial # higher then 10,000 , my serial # is 3268 !!!!

Maps sent , thanks

Anything !!! , we still have snow for abit , would like to get this worked out so i don,t have to spend next season tuning

Hi Ray , i can see what you are saying that the ECU automatically adjust the MGP axis for barometric pressure , but in my case the turbo is reacting ( spooling ) differently due to the thinner air , it is not moving as much air off boost ( needs less fuel ) then spools into boost earlyer in the RPM range ,( at 90kpa baro it spools into boost around 6000RPM,s , at 80kpa it spools into boost around 5000RMP,s ) If i try to run my map made at 90 kpa baro up in the mountains , when the baro pressure drops , the sled runs rich off boost and then stalls as it comes into boost , due to being to lean , OR if i try to run my map made at 80kpa baro at home (baro at home is 90kpa ) it runs to lean off boost and rich in the 5000-5500 range .

Hi ,i am new to the site and i am hoping to get some help , i am using a v-88 ( marine , sealed unit ) on my turbo charge 4 stroke snowmobile , i have two maps builded , one is for 90kpa on the baro and the other is for 80 kpa on the baro , how do i get the Vi-pec to transition from one map to the other evenly thoughtout the 10 kpa differents . my maps are made up useing MGP in the X axis and RPM,s in the Y axis. Thanks