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Staged Secondary Injectors intermittently firing


Guest |285|
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Guest |285|

Hi all and Ray

I have had my plugin ECU for a series 6 RX7 for 2 years now and loving it except now a quirk has popped up. My secondary injectors seem to not come on line at all sometimes and it periodically happens but its happening more frequently now that it is scaring me. What is happening is when the secondaries are suppose to come on line they wont so it runs real lean as the primaries are cut back. It might happen one time and then not the next minute later. My biggest fear now is that I have to get this fixed because the secondaries might just go offline when under boost which is what they did for me the first time today. The motor was at 6psi boost but did not detonate thank god :o .

My first clue was maybe the injector drivers are burning out and this very well may be the case. My secondaries are the Bosch F5TE-B5A 1680cc injectors with fitted ballast resistors and primaries are the stock 550cc. Maybe the impedance is not high enough for the plugin ecu? I checked the injectors room temperature and they measure 5.2 ohms and the resistors measure 3 ohms so that is a total of 8.2ohms which should be enough I would think. Then I noticed my dead times are different than this post http://www.vi-pec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=603&hilit=rx7#p3774 which state they should be 2.4, 2.0, 1.68, 1.38, 1.082, 1.024, 0.96, 0.878, 0.789, 0.725 . So I am kind of baffled why this is happening and it is not just happening at the transition, now even after they have been on for a couple seconds. This has been gradually getting worse over the past 10-15 tanks of gas also, sometimes it won't do it at all for 300km. I live in Canada so I don't drive the car in Winter. Does anyone or Ray have any idea as why this might be or could the injectors be going bad? If it is the injector drivers is there some components I could replace on the ecu to fix it? I am very proficient and capable of soldering boards.

Thanks all

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Guest |285|

My ecu serial # is 4270 and the Maincode firmware version is 4.6.9 and the Bootcode firmware version is 1.4. Does it have something to do with the newer firmwares?

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Guest |543|

I was just asking for curiosity, my problem was that the injector settings for the 3-4 injectors were set to peak and hold and the 1-2 were set to saturated, I did not realize that with the newer firmware you had more options in the injector settings. This was my mistake and I think the settings were messing with the drivers and making it tune inconsistent. check you injection setup settings and see if they are the same as your primary injectors. I dont know if this will fix your problem, but it sounds like you might have some resistance issues?

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Guest |285|

Mine is the V44 plugin ecu for rx7 series 6 so it does not have any options for that. The box is grayed out by default so I don't think this could be the problem. I am thinking more now that it is resistance, like maybe to much somewhere along the line and this is what is causing them not to open. I am also wondering if it is that the ballast resistors are getting to hot with heat soak and then the resistance of them increases when they are hot, my ballast resistors I put them inline about 4 inches back from the actual injector connector, maybe I have to relocate them and buy new resistors as maybe the heat has hurt them over time. I have however checked to make sure when the secondaries are suppose to come online that the computer is telling them to open, as in when they are suppose to come online the primary duty cycle will drop and say the secondary duty cycle will say like 10-15% so the ecu is telling them to open but no go. Hmmm.

Thanks

John

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Guest |285|

Hi Ray

Yes sorry about that when I saved my current map I had the upper intake manifold off and those sensors were unplugged, I cleared the errors before I sent the map to you but obviously it still shows the values. I forgot to mention that. When it was running when it is happening the iat and coolant temp were fine, so I know this is not the problem unfortunately, I wish it was. When it does happen the air fuel ratio seems totally fine. Any other thoughts? Do you think it could be resistance issues?

Thanks

John

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Guest |285|

Hi Ray

Yeah I guess I made it sound that way but they are wired in parallel. Each secondary injector measures 5.2 ohms and each resistor measures 3 ohms and there is a resistor for every battery voltage wire for each injector. They are not wired in series. Sorry about the confusion. Do you think it could be too much or too little resistance? I was running the same injectors on my PFC before the Vipec and no issues, and I did not have any issues in the first year when I got the Vipec which was 2009 but started to notice it the odd time in 2010 and now 2011 it seems to be getting worse. Maybe they need a good cleaning?

*Edit* I just read the electrical interference post and I got curious does my serial number 4270 have one or two injector drivers for both secondaries and at will it supply 2 or 4 amps? Because if it is only one 2 amp driver for the secondaries then mine would be over and also my resistors are 25 Watt not 50 Watt

injector+resistor

5.2 ohms + 3 ohms

13.5V/8.2 ohms = 1.65A

1.65A+1.65A = 3.3A

Thanks

John

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Guest |285|

Hi Ray

I have not run the car since starting this thread so today after going thru stuff in the engine bay I thought I would check how it runs now. Well it does it all the time now so I think this is a good thing as it will be a lot easier to find the problem. Now where the fun comes in I thought I would check the ECU Runtime Values and bingo under the fuel tab it says OverCurr-INJ 1/2 ERROR but 3/4 and 5/6 are OK and also when I go to the ECU Status tab the 12V internal (V) says 15.93. So I think this could be the problem, The batt voltage measures right around 14 volts so I am not sure why this would be so high and causing the error. Would something have blown maybe? What should I check?

Thanks

John

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Guest |129|

I'm not sure if those errors will be the source of your problem, as I've had two MY01 WRX Plugin's show the same Overcurrent error with 15.9V internal 12V reading after upgrading from 4.6.9 to 4.7.1 firmware.

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Guest |285|

Yeah that is weird then. I did do the upgrade to 4.7.1 but do not know for sure if it was doing it before the upgrade. I then downgraded to see what it said and voila no readings of that type in ecu runtime values. Wonder what's up with the new readings?

Still though my secondaries are not coming online at all now.

Thanks

John

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I'm not sure if those errors will be the source of your problem, as I've had two MY01 WRX Plugin's show the same Overcurrent error with 15.9V internal 12V reading after upgrading from 4.6.9 to 4.7.1 firmware.

This is a software bug and the information it provides is false. Ignore the errors and they will disapear with the next software version. Basicly the software thinks it is connected to a V88 rather then a V44. Has no effect on anything other then me having to keep telling people to ignore it.

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Guest |285|

Hi Ray

Not a problem. Most likely overnight you the ecu as this is more convenient for me and then I can go from there. But I will let you know when it is coming and before I send it. Thank you for all the help so far.

Edit* Oh what address would you like me to send it to if and when I do?

Thanks

John

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  • 3 months later...
Guest |285|

Hi Ray

Thanks for all the help but I finally figured it out, and it is not the ECU. Finally it started doing it all the time, no more intermittently and it was an injector wire that had a bad connection. Boy was this hard to find because everywhere I looked and tested nothing was wrong with the wiring until I decided to put it all back together and see if it was intermittent, and it was not. Then finally testing the wiring again led to a faulty wire. Thank you for all your help when I needed it. The reason I am just writing this now is because I have been so busy with other life things that I have not driven my car since I got this figured out 3 months ago, but I better start driving now before the snow flies in November. :D

Thanks

John Boylan

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