Guest |201| Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi again, Well we now have my car running on the V88 and its running great (have not had it out on the road yet). One problem we have run into is when restarting the car hot. When we do that it will start right way but idle at 3000rpm, we then take it down to 800rpm in the idle speed control table. Under start up step we have them set up like this, 60c 20, 80c 15, 100c 10. We have tried adjusting this as well with no change. If we turn the key on and let the idle motor adjust home it revs to 3000RPM and holds as well. We have it set up to reset a Key Off and have tried Key On with the same results. I have no AirCon so that should not matter. We have idle control set in Open loop Sol/Stepper, Unipolar (6terminal) Min clamp 100 max 400. We have made all kinds of changes trying to get it to work with out any luck. We have been able to turn on the ignition to run then adjust the idle stepper to the 150 range and it starts fine, then turn off the key and start again its at 3000rpm again. We are kind of at a loss and not sure were ot go from here. The motor is a 2jz with a stock Toyota Idle control motor. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Jeremy, The Stepper Base Positions table needs to be adjusted. Select open loop idle control, and set the base positions at each temperature. Then enable closed loop idle again. If the base values are a long way out, the PID control needs to make big corrections the idle speed on startup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 OK we will give that a shot! Thanks again Ray! Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |282| Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Hi my name is Bill and have been working on this car for jeremy. We have the car in open loop idle control. the problem is that a certain idle step position will not always yeild the same idle speed. we can start the car and use a step value of 340 to yeild 1000rpm. shut it off and start it again and that value will yeild over 2000rpm. change it to 220 and 1000 rpm is back. some times it is 150 steps to get 1000rpm. we have tried stepper reset on key on and key off and it makes no difference. larger steps yeild a higher idle speed. the idle motor is set to unipolar ( is 6 pins with two of them power). On other ems systems I have removed the two power pins and ran it as a bipolar with no issues. Could this help? Cheers, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |282| Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Also, why are there two min clamp and two max clamp drop down menus in the idle setup window? Cheers, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 If the engine has a stepper idle valve (which it does), you must wire and setup the ECU with the "ECU Hold Power" option. This allows the stepper motor to return to the fully closed position after you turn the ignition off. No other method will work correctly. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Also, why are there two min clamp and two max clamp drop down menus in the idle setup window? Bill, the other two are the PID control minimum and maximum values. Do not adjust these as they have nothing to do with the stepper motor fully closing when you turn the ignition off. Only thing that will do that correctly is ECU Hold Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 The Supra is not an easy engine to setup the ECU hold power feature. The problem is the EFI relay is +ve switched. In other words it needs 12v, not ground to turn it on. The Vipec V88 Supra adaptor http://www.vi-pec.com/image_files/plugin/SupraV88Plugin.jpg uses the ECU hold power and has no problems with the stepper idle valve, as it has this circuit inbuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ray, We do have ECU hold power set up and key off enabled. Since this is running on a MKIII supra (ma70> 2jz swap) We have a main relay wired in the back so it is ground switched (I believe). Now in the idle control screen under base position it says (step count from fully open). Now with my car if I put in a value of let say 100 to make it idle at 1000rpm, if I want to make it idle at 1500rpm I put it to 170. Now with it saying (step count from fully open) then it should be the other way right? i.e. 1000rpm idle at say 300 and 1500rpm at 230. Am I understanding this right? the lower vale should open and the higher should close? Also if that's the case with my car when it key off resets its trying to close the motor all that way when in fact its opening all the way, the ECU as far as it knows is closing it. This maybe a simple problem of the signal wires for the stepper being wired back wards. Anyone have a scimatic of the 2jz Stepper plug and how it should be wired. I have no idea if I'm on the right track here but it kind of makes sense no? Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |226| Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 If the step number is large to give a high idle then you need to reverse your wiring on one of the coils so swap aux 5 and 6 over and you will then have it operating the correct way start with 56 as step at 20c and 71 at 100c interpolate inbetween these two point this will give you a start point to suit the 2j stepper Regards Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Anyone have a scimatic of the 2jz Stepper plug and how it should be wired. I do not have that, but here is the correct wiring at the Supra ECU connector. Vipec Pin A26 = E9-32 Vipec Pin A27 = E9-34 Vipec Pin A28 = E9-33 Vipec Pin A29 = E9-35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 This is the wiring at the stepper valve. Vipec Pin A26 = Pin 3 Vipec Pin A27 = Pin 1 Vipec Pin A28 = Pin 6 Vipec Pin A29 = Pin 4 Pins 2 and 5 connect to 12v ignition switched power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thanks a lot Ray! That worked, we had two pins crossed at the stepper. The pin out for the stepper was just what I needed. Once the idle control was configured it was perfect. One thing I was playing with tonight was speed DI #2, we are going to have two speed inputs for launch control and so on. Speed DI #1 will be to a front wheel speed sensor, but is not hooked up yet. The Speed DI #2 is wired to the rear ABS sensor (on the out put of the R154 tranny). With the speed calibration DI#2 set to 3000 its still almost double the true speed (60km/hr Wheel = 118km/hr DI#2). If I go lower to say 2000 its way off 450+km/hr. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Or is that the limitation of the software right now? I there any plans to make it able to go up to say 7000 in the speed calibration? Thanks, Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Jeremy, Do you know how many signals the R154 gearbox speed sensor outputs. The Vipec turbo speed sensor http://www.vi-pec.com/image_files/sensors/turbospeedsensor.jpg has a small circuit added to divide the number of signals, so the signals did not exceed the limit for the digital inputs. Something like this may need to be added. The frequency limit for the digital inputs is not going to be increased in the near future. On my car (Lexus IS300) I have two speed inputs connected to the ABS wheel sensor signals. There is 48 teeth on each wheel. I have a calibration number of 2450 and the speed is correct. Maybe you can also get the signals direct from the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 Jeremy, Do you know how many signals the R154 gearbox speed sensor outputs. The Vipec turbo speed sensor http://www.vi-pec.com/image_files/sensors/turbospeedsensor.jpg has a small circuit added to divide the number of signals, so the signals did not exceed the limit for the digital inputs. Something like this may need to be added. The frequency limit for the digital inputs is not going to be increased in the near future. On my car (Lexus IS300) I have two speed inputs connected to the ABS wheel sensor signals. There is 48 teeth on each wheel. I have a calibration number of 2450 and the speed is correct. Maybe you can also get the signals direct from the wheels. I'm not sure how many signals the R154 has, its deep in the tail housing of the tranny and hard to count. We were thinking about maybe pulling off the tail housing and grinding off every 2nd tooth effectively dropping the pule speed by half. Not something that is going to be easy to do at all. Do you have any more information on the small circuit to divide the signal, that maybe a way to go. On my MA70 I had a 3 channel ABS system, so I will be tapping into those sensors one rear (the one I'm working with now) and one front. I have not tapped into the old ABS wiring for the front wheel speed yet but will be doing that in the next week or so. I believe there are more than 48teeth on the front sensor, so that maybe a problem too. I need at least one front sensor working for my launch control. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 After looking at some parts drawings of the tail shaft out of the R154 I cant see there being any more than about 20-30 teeth. The ring is about 40mm diameter so I'm wondering if there is something I have done wrong with the setup? Its really straight forward so I can't see any thing I could have set wrong. In the mean time we are going to hook into one of the front wheel speeds and see how that goes. I'm also thinking about maybe seeing if I can get a good rear wheel speed off the dash, there is a speed output for the factory EMS there. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I cant see there being any more than about 20-30 teeth. The ring is about 40mm diameter so I'm wondering if there is something I have done wrong with the setup? I would think the ECU is seeing a lot more then this for some reason. Do you have a scope to look at the signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 I would think the ECU is seeing a lot more then this for some reason. Do you have a scope to look at the signal. Yeah that what I was thinking. Unfortunately I do not have a scope, Its a bit more than I would normaly need in a home garage. I'm going to see how we make out with the front wheel speed sensor and go from there. I do not need both right now but at some point in the future it will be nice. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 We were finally able to wire in and test the front wheels speed sensor last night and it too is off. The speed is off about 30kms at 60kms an hour so its showing 90km/hr, the rear one is still off by a long shot. At this point I have got two wheels speed sensors hooked up and there both not reading correctly. I need to have at least one reading right for my idle and motor sport features to work. I would like to have two for down the road when the Traction control is working. Any ideas on a way to cut both signals down or in half so I can get this working? I was not expecting this problem as I was led to believe it would work fine with the stock wheels speed sensors. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Jeremy, Which digital inputs are you using. Are the wheel sensors reluctor or hall effect. What is the calibration value for each digital input. How many signals from the front and rear wheel sensors in one turn of the wheels. How far does the car move in one turn of the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted June 3, 2009 Report Share Posted June 3, 2009 Jeremy, Which digital inputs are you using. Are the wheel sensors reluctor or hall effect. What is the calibration value for each digital input. How many signals from the front and rear wheel sensors in one turn of the wheels. How far does the car move in one turn of the wheels. Ray, I'm away from my car and tuning laptop, I will try and get that info for you ASAP. Thanks, Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Jeremy, Which digital inputs are you using. Di 1 & 2 Are the wheel sensors reluctor or hall effect. Front is a two wire reluctor. Rear is a 3 wire hall effect. What is the calibration value for each digital input.3000 for each How many signals from the front and rear wheel sensors in one turn of the wheels. Front 96 teeth per rev. Rear 119 teeth per rev (32 teeth x 3.73rear end = 119 per rev) How far does the car move in one turn of the wheels.191.4cm per rev Thanks for the help, sorry for the delay. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Jeremy, There is too many signals for the speed input to work. The maximum calibration number is 3000. 96 teeth = Calibration number 4396 119 teeth = Calibration number 5450. You are going to need a divider circuit. I do have them available. They are used on the turbo speed sensor to reduce the number of signals. They only work with hall effect sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest |201| Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Jeremy, There is too many signals for the speed input to work. The maximum calibration number is 3000. 96 teeth = Calibration number 4396 119 teeth = Calibration number 5450. You are going to need a divider circuit. I do have them available. They are used on the turbo speed sensor to reduce the number of signals. They only work with hall effect sensors. Ray, How much am I looking at for the divider circuit and do you think grinding off every 2nd tooth on the reluctor one will work? The main one I want working now is the front reluctor one for closed loop idle, launch control(2 step) gear and speed in the future I would like both for traction control. Thanks for the help, Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayhall Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Jeremy, Half the number of teeth would work. The dividers are around $30 each. You could make your own using this circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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