Zmit
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Hi Adam,
forgot to mention that. Yes I did try the starter fluid but honestly didn’t seem to make any difference.
I’ll post the log tonight, I don’t have it with me now.
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Thanks Adam,
that particular log seemed lower than previous ones, but I must have put the wrong dizzy in. This one is now reading -0.8 to + 0.66.
Since changing the dizzy over, it seems to kick 2s after cranking to about 400-600 rpm. This is very consistent but then never goes anywhere after that.
We’ve confirmed compression on all 4, spark from each of the plugs (visual inspection, even though they were quite wet)
i’m not quite sure what else to check. Any other thoughts?
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Here's a trigger scope.
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I haven't got a capture of the trigger scope, but I've done it a few times as a sanity check. I've got consistent (reluctor) trigger 1 and 2 signals, but trigger 2 peaks at +-0.4V with a fair bit of noise at -0.2V. The arming threshold should be able to handle that.
@INSW20 That's a fair point. I went back over some of my other attempts and it doesn't look like it's moved much either. I'll check that out and see if I'm getting any signal off it.
Thanks for the suggestions, gives me some direction when I give it another go on Friday -
Hi Adam,
Thanks for the comment. I've tried that and definitely have it on compression rather than exhaust.
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G'day all,
After a few days of trying to get my rebuilt 3SGTE started for the first time on a P'n'P G4+, I've run out of ideas and hoping for a little bit of guidance.
I've had the ECU for a few years and it was running on the car in 2018. It was tuned by me at the time, and was never fully dialled in, nor pushed too hard. At that point, the thrust washers gave out and destroyed the block/crank. Fast forward a few years and I've made a few changes including a new block/crank, changing the turbo from a GT35/CT26 hybrid to a GT28 and redoing the entire engine loom (yes, with a P'n'P).
It's a Gen 2 3SGTE with:
- 86.5mm forged pistons
- gen1 3SGE intake manifold
- GT28
- 540cc (gen3) injectors)
- Tomei FPR
- Walbro 255 fuel pump
- 1ZZ COPs
- OEM dizzy triggers
- 2AZ E-Throttle
Where I've gotten to:
- I've confirmed base timing is correct with a timing light and the calibration sequence (note: from a UI/UX perspective it would be really nice to have an 'apply' button for that dialog so that idiots like me don't have to resort to the forums to find the 'press enter' trick)
- I've tested spark and all COPs are firing the plugs correctly.
- I've tested injectors and they are all triggering correctly as well. The combination has meant combustion a few times when I've tested the COPs after cranking it a few times
- Trigger 1 and 2 are present but trig2 seems really low at 0.25v being the lowest arming voltage before noise (at -0.18v) creeps in.
- I've switched my map from modelled to traditional while the WB hasn't been hooked up, but haven't made much headway with either equation type.
Most of what I knew in 2018 in terms of tuning hadn't been used for years and has vaporised in that time. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I've attached a couple of recent attempts. Please note that the fuel table and ignition table around the 0-1500 rpm region will likely be nonsense as I'm just trying anything at this point.
MR2_20211121.pclr Log 2021-11-21 3;49;34 pm.llg test_start_attempt.llg
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On 1/14/2018 at 7:01 PM, Adamw said:
Our plugin ECU's are made up of 2 PCB's, we refer to them as the "top board" and "bottom board". The top board has the main ECU electronics, the bottom board is basically just like an adaptor board that connects all the necessary I/O from the top board to the original OEM header.
For the last couple of years all of our plugin ECUs use a G4+ Xtreme based top board so it has the E-throttle hardware on board. However in this case the bottom board doesnt connect the Aux 9 & 10 outputs to any externally available pins (also no E-throttle relay/Ethottle power supply routed). This is mostly because this car never had E-throttle originally and it wasnt a common modification back in the day when we designed this bottom board and it hasnt been revised since we added E-throttle to the Top board.
Some of our more common plugins have had the bottom boards revised more regularly as trends change or features are added, for instance, WRX V7-9 and Evo4-9 ECU's now have the E-throttle outputs connected.
Well explained. Thanks for that Adam.
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What's the technical reason that E-throttle isn't supported on this ECU? (In its current form)
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Thanks Adam. Just wanted to clarify that before I go and wire-in the expansion harness for DI4...
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I'd start by checking all your wiring.... Did you forget a ground?
Have you confirmed no pulse by running an injector pulse test as well?
More info about what you've done and what you're seeing on PCLink will help. -
I've just set up the same ECU in my gen2 running gen3 wiring. I had to mess with the threshold slightly.
Your best bet is to capture a trigger scope in PCLink while cranking the engine. (ECU menu -> Trigger scope)
If you see nothing there, then your trigger setup is incorrect as it must be looking at the wrong pin/source
If you do see something there, then check the voltage peak against the trigger threshold table. That may need some tweaking.
EDIT: This would probably help a bit.... -
Just curious about the unlabelled pins for the MR2Link rev2-3. I'm sorting out an issue with my power steering input and noticed that there are a few gaps in the pin labels.
Much like the KNK sensor as discussed in this topic below, are there any other 'assumed' sensors/inputs for the MR2Link that aren't labelled? I'm particularly looking at the body harness/3rd plug. -
It turns out that the 'save' button for the trigger scope didn't work correctly with the 4K screen....
The second image is just the screen grab. It started part way through.
Link to 3+ hours of logging. The last 1 hour is where I had the most problems. Stalled about four times.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mdowJIhanfdc3iK80HFzD2UJ5SpsOupw/view?usp=sharing
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52 minutes ago, Adamw said:
Then your arming threshold table is set too high. Change it to match my screenshot below. It would have been nice to post that trigger scope here so we can have a quick look for other problems.
Yes... It would have been pretty easy to hit the save button. I dropped the first cell down to 0.3 but didn't change the second cell. I only had a couple of minutes to work with it and didn't even consider changing the second cell.
Seemed to make no qualitative difference when I tried starting it again, but it's possible that the interpolation at 300rpm pushed it over the threshold.52 minutes ago, Adamw said:The trigger scope attempts to capture something close to one engine cycle, the trigger 2 on your engine only outputs one pulse per cycle so that is expected.
That makes sense. I saw one capture with two pulses at the same peak voltage, so that must have been the extremities of the cycle.
52 minutes ago, Adamw said:Not easily in the native .llg format. Just share the file via google drive or onedrive etc.
Will share the log tonight.
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4 hours ago, Adamw said:
Many Toyotas have very low voltage coming out of the cam sensor especially when cold cranking is slow. Start by doing a trigger scope on a cold cranking engine so we can see if this may be the problem.
Try to capture this on a log will be helpful.
I heard this exact statement on the HPA seminar on triggers that I was watching this afternoon!
I quickly ran a trigger scope capture while cranking and noticed 0.5v peak on trigger 2 (distributor reluctor signal). There was also only one pulse in the capture time. Seems to indicate either excessive filtering(?) or an intermittent reluctor fault. I have clocked about 4 hours of drive time with this setup so far though..
Is it possible to get a partial log file from a larger log file?
The stalls are in a 16mb file....
The cranking log may not be overly helpful.... -
Well i've now sorted out the low rpm hesitation. I've definitely improved the ignition table a bit now.
I'm still having two main issues.
The first is that my starting seems to be rather laborious. it will take at least 5 seconds, sometimes more to actually fire up. It coughs intermittently but will eventually kick enough to run up to idle. I've noticed that trigger issues seem to be common, so i'll be checking that when I get a chance.
The second is the ocassional stall under decel to idle. This happens only when it's been running for 20 minutes+.Any suggestions on where to look first (and second) for each of these would be welcome.
I'll post the map tonight. -
Just updating this slightly.
The SW20 is notorious for dodgy grounds, and the ECU ground on the back of the intake manifold is one that causes a lot of people grief. Turns out, that was loose.
I also took the opportunity to replace the main battery -ve cable as well. The battery level is back to it's usual 13.8V.
I've got a few other things to sort out such as installing the FPR and fuel pressure sensor. -
Well that’s definitely a number of things to check! Thanks Adam. I expected there would be quite a few corrections to be made but didn’t even notice the WB/Battery correlation.
Ill get onto the ground issue first and then revisit the other changes.
Base timing has been set from the dizzy cam sensor.
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Hi all,
I've just started looking into tuning with my G4+. This is my first shot at tuning and the car will almost exclusively be driven on the street. I've been slowly working my way around various functions and getting a feel for what they do and how my car responds. I've been gradually going through some of the HP Academy webinars but still feel like quite a noob!
A few details about the car.
- 98RON Petrol exclusively.
- Walbro 255 fuel pump
- CT26/GT35 hybrid (yes I know....)
- 540cc Toyota injectors
- 3SGE (NA) cams
- 1ZZ COPs via an external converter box (Was operating this way on the factory ECU. Will be wired directly eventually)
- High flow CATI'm after any advice on the particular setup, but in particular I'm looking at some help trying to narrow down a low rpm hesitation. It feels like I have very little torque around 1000-2500 rpm. This has pretty much always been the case with the factory ECU and the stupidly oversized/restricted turbo in it, but this I think still comes down to tuning.
There are probably a whole heap of things that need to be changed on the attached map. Some may have been tweaked in isolation.
Also, does anyone know if the 3SGTE factory knock sensor is able to be setup in the PnP G4+?
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Perfect! Glad to hear it.
Thanks for the reply Adam. -
Hi Guys,
I've got a G4+ plugin for my Rev3 MR2 running the PCLink software.I have an issue with the PCLink software crashing if the laptop goes to sleep. It's a fairly new Dell XPS running Windows 10. PCLink is the latest release (V5.6.5.3338b)
If the laptop goes to sleep with the software open then once the laptop is woken up again, PCLink displays the Debug/Close program dialog. This happens almost every time.
Let me know what other detail you would like.
3SGTE rebuild starting issue
in G4+
Posted
Many months later, I'm going to admit to screwing this up.
The reason it didn't start was due to the exhaust cam mechanical timing being out by a significant amount. (somewhere near 70-80 degrees)
One Friday night 18 months ago I must have decided to use the right-hand pin hole to notch the cam a couple of degrees, but then when I put the cam gear on I put it into the centre hole and just didn't check it.
When I checked the cam gear timing, they matched perfectly. I didn't check the cam notch timing until much later though. That's where it became painfully obvious.
Anyone who has worked on an MR2 before knows that once the engine is in, you can't really do anything with the timing belt. Me and a mate did come up with a solution.
Using a magnet on the match pin didn't work, so we had to slide the cam gear onto a turned down collar so we could get the pin out.
Thank you all who offered suggestions. It all helped. When we finally did resolve the timing issue, it started up within a second of cranking. Since then, it's been starting instantly every single time.
Cheers,
Tim