EVO3X - No Spark when Cranking (but Spark when Testing) - Trigger Issues?

[evocooper]

Hi all,

I've recently replaced the old power FC in my Evo 3 with a plug-n-play Evo3X G4X and unfortunately i am unable to set the base timing due to what appears to be trigger issues. 

When I attached the timing light to cylinder 1 and perform an ignition test, the timing light works as intended, but when i crank the engine (with fueling turned off) the timing light does not function. I have also double checked visually with the spark plug earthed to the rocker cover with no success. While troubleshooting this, I also noticed is that my Trig1 Err Counter is counting upward with each crank of the engine (up to 84 at one point).

Interestingly, when i changed the trigger config from Evo 1-6 to Evo 7-9, the Trig 1 counter does not count up but i'm still not getting any indication of spark from the timing light. I have inspected the CAS wiring and relevant ecu wiring which look ok, and also tried reloading the Evo 3 map with no joy.

The only changes I have made to the Evo 3 base map are my injector dead times and the Ms value for injector size. 

MainCode Firmware Version is 6.22.13 and i've attached the Trigger Scope and a data log of some cold cranking. 

Anyone seen this issue previously?  Would hugely appreciate any support/suggestions to get this sorted.

Thanks!

crank no spark - 2022-07-17 4;36;29 pm.llgx

TriggerScopeLog.llgx

[Adamw]

Can you attach the trigger scope log file, rather than just a screen shot.  

[evocooper]

50 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Can you attach the trigger scope log file, rather than just a screen shot.  

I've attached what i've got on my laptop - Hopefully this is sufficient. but If you need anything else let me know.

Thanks,

[Adamw]

Unfortunately that triggerscope file doesnt have any data in it - it looks like it was captured before the engine was cranking.  Can you do us a new one so it looks just like your screen shot above, then click the save button.  The saved file contains more data about what part of the waveform the ecu is not happy with.  

[evocooper]

1 minute ago, Adamw said:

Unfortunately that triggerscope file doesnt have any data in it - it looks like it was captured before the engine was cranking.  Can you do us a new one so it looks just like your screen shot above, then click the save button.  The saved file contains more data about what part of the waveform the ecu is not happy with.  

Thanks Adam. I'll capture another triggerscope log this afternoon. Appreciate your support mate. 

[evocooper]

8 hours ago, Adamw said:

Unfortunately that triggerscope file doesnt have any data in it - it looks like it was captured before the engine was cranking.  Can you do us a new one so it looks just like your screen shot above, then click the save button.  The saved file contains more data about what part of the waveform the ecu is not happy with.  

TriggerScopeLog2.llgx

Hopefully this one works... 

[Adamw]

Hmm, thats a bit odd.  In that latest scope, it did lose sync for some reason in the first couple of revolutions (pink square), but after that it resynced and carried on happy after that (yellow square), it should have been sparking during that yellow area.  Can you do us a couple more similar scopes when you get a chance, Im going to pass this onto the firmware engineers to see if they can tell me what caused it to lose sync in that first revolution (it wouldnt be sparking during these first couple of revolutions).  A couple more scopes would be helpful to see if there is any similarities.  

[evocooper]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Hmm, thats a bit odd.  In that latest scope, it did lose sync for some reason in the first couple of revolutions (pink square), but after that it resynced and carried on happy after that (yellow square), it should have been sparking during that yellow area.  Can you do us a couple more similar scopes when you get a chance, Im going to pass this onto the firmware engineers to see if they can tell me what caused it to lose sync in that first revolution (it wouldnt be sparking during these first couple of revolutions).  A couple more scopes would be helpful to see if there is any similarities.  

 

Here are a couple more logs. I hooked the timing light up and it seems to be intermittent.

I also got this error after cranking on a few separate occasions which i have seen a few times now? Could be related?

Thanks!

TriggerScopeLog4.llgx TriggerScopeLog5.llgx TriggerScopeLog6.llgx

[Adamw]

I've passed your scopes onto the firmware team for their thoughts.  

The message about reconnecting with different settings usually means you changed something in the ecu then turned ignition off (or it lost power during cranking etc) before it was stored.  So the ecu will revert back to old settings.  

[evocooper]

Thanks Adam, I will wait to hear back. 

[Adamw]

Can you pop the lid off the CAS and check if the 4 tooth chopper wheel looks modified.  

The firmware engineer says the code expects the trigger 1 teeth to be about 70deg wide and the gaps between them to be about 110deg wide.  But in your scope they look more like 90 & 90deg.  

This could be something wrong with the CAS/modified - or it could (more likely) be caused by the crank slowing down more than expected due to compression at TDC etc.  Does it crank relatively smoothly and sound like it cranks strong or is it really struggling? If you pull all spark plugs out (so it has no compression) do you then have RPM reported in PC Link and regular spark?

[evocooper]

The engine cranks strongly - see attached video (with plugs in the head).

When I get home I’ll crank without plugs, and pop the cap off the CAS and grab some photos to upload here.

Thanks,

[evocooper]

Hi Adam,

CAS looks unmodified. See attached.

I took all plugs out and tried again but still getting intermittent signal from my timing light. Interestingly though, i noticed visible spark at the plugs while cranking, but this was not reflected by the timing light.

I then did ignition tests on both coils and the light pulses were strong/normal. I also noted an engine speed of 197 RPM while cranking (again no plugs). 

Could the spark be getting a lower voltage from the ECU during cranking (not enough to trigger the light) but full voltage during the ignition test? Likely related to the signal the ecu is expecting?

I've also attached a couple of trigger scopes and a log from cranking with no plugs in any cylinders in case that helps at all.

Thanks,

 

PC Datalog - 2022-07-19 6;01;34 pm crank no plugs.llgx TriggerScopeLog-NoPlugs1.llgx TriggerScopeLog-NoPlugs2.llgx

[Adamw]

Yeah all looks happy in those logs and scopes, the ECU would have been commanding a spark in all of those.  

I wouldnt worry about the timing light too much initially, the evos usually start with the offset at zero.  

Try it with the plugs back in, provided you have RPM that isnt dropping out you should have spark.  

[evocooper]

Thanks Adam. I’ll try and jump the battery while cranking again with the plugs in and see how I go.

Thanks again for your help. 

[evocooper]

21 hours ago, Adamw said:

Yeah all looks happy in those logs and scopes, the ECU would have been commanding a spark in all of those.  

I wouldnt worry about the timing light too much initially, the evos usually start with the offset at zero.  

Try it with the plugs back in, provided you have RPM that isnt dropping out you should have spark.  

Hi Adam,

I locked the timing offset at 0 and went for a start and we are away - CAS position was way out but with a few tweaks the car is humming now. Thanks again for your support. Very impressed with the product and the support to date!

Cheers! 

Andrew,