Sguzy Posted August 20, 2023 Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 Hello all, I have a m50NV giving me no spark. I am able to get spark when I am testing, however when it is cranking i have none. I am using a n350x ecu which i repined my harness to accept and uploaded an e36 base map to start with. also I am using VAG R8 coils because of no internal ignitors on this ecu. because of the pinout of the 350z i am unable to use the reluctor cam and crank sensor so i have rewired and mounted a Hall sensor on both crank and cam. I am picking up what i believe to be a decent trigger scope but thats only baised on what ive seen similar to other files ( I am new to this) also i am getting around 200rpms while cranking. if someone could kindly review my trigger scopes to see if all is okay or maybe i am over looking something. i also dont have the map connected to vacuum yet. trig3.llgx trig 4.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 20, 2023 Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 The crank sensor is only picking up about half of the teeth, the cam sensor is not working at all. The cam sensor shows 1V all the time which isn't something a hall sensor can generate so that would suggest it is wired wrong. The crank sensor is probably not suitable for the trigger wheel tooth design. Why cant you use the factory sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 From my understanding a reluctor sensor needs a trigger + and trigger -. The n350x doesn’t have a spot for the trigger - and I wasn’t able to pick up anything with the reluctor sensors. I couldn’t find anything on the n350x pin out that would be suitable for the reluctor sensor - side. I am using a non vanos crank wheel which I believe is a 60-2 and crank offset of -84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 @Adamw would the spacing of the crank sensor affect it? I have it as close as I can without touching the crank. Also for reference I’m using an m52 Hall effect crank sensor that was mounted on block on obd2 cars. But I was able to fit it in the old sensors spot an wire it in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 20, 2023 Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Sguzy said: From my understanding a reluctor sensor needs a trigger + and trigger -. "Trigger -" is sensor ground. You use the same signal wire and ground as you would for a hall sensor, the only difference is no power wire is needed. 7 hours ago, Sguzy said: would the spacing of the crank sensor affect it? I have it as close as I can without touching the crank. I dont know the BMW engine variations well, but usually a reluctor wheel design is different than a hall effect wheel. Reluctor teeth are typically sharper/pointy and the missing tooth cutout would be to full depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Adamw said: "Trigger -" is sensor ground. You use the same signal wire and ground as you would for a hall sensor, the only difference is no power wire is needed. I dont know the BMW engine variations well, but usually a reluctor wheel design is different than a hall effect wheel. Reluctor teeth are typically sharper/pointy and the missing tooth cutout would be to full depth. I can try to wire my reluctor sensors back up, m52 euros have a hall sensor mounted to the same style of pickup, only difference is, is the trigger offset. the issue I have is there are only signal grounds on the n350x ecu no sensor grounds. I ordered the euro sensor since it is commonly used in obd2 conversions on to obd1 motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 20, 2023 Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 Signal ground is sensor ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 i tried that originally and it didnt spark as well, and i recieved no feed back from it. i can try one more time but i feel like im getting a little closer... i was able to set my crank sensor a little closer to the crank and it generated this scope yet still no start. to me it looks good but yet im a new to this. i know cam is off but i dont believe that should effect spark. unless i dont have it offset correctly but still even then i feel as if i should at least get something. trig5.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Adamw said: Signal ground is sensor ground. i wired it back to that and now i have this signal, yet no spark.... wondering if it has anything to do with the setup i have for the VAG coils. i wired them correctly and they spark in spark test. yet no spark while cranking. i also uploaded my tune as it sits now. not sure if anyone would be willing to take a look and help me out trig6 reluctor.llgx e30 m50NV turbo.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 21, 2023 Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 Your crank sensor is wired incorrect polarity, you need to swap the +/- wires at the sensor plug. The cam sensor has a slightly odd waveform to it but the ecu is interpreting it correctly at least in this particular scope, so will likely be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Adamw said: Your crank sensor is wired incorrect polarity, you need to swap the +/- wires at the sensor plug. The cam sensor has a slightly odd waveform to it but the ecu is interpreting it correctly at least in this particular scope, so will likely be fine. I swapped them around, still no dice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 21, 2023 Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 attach another scope capture please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Adamw said: attach another scope capture please TriggerScopeLog8.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 21, 2023 Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 This scope has revealed a further wiring issue, which I will cover next, but the scope shows the ecu is happy with the trigger signal and would be commanding a spark. The new issue is when you reversed the crank sensor wiring, we see in the scope that your cam signal has also reversed. You can also see cross talk from the crank sensor on the cam signal. This means somehow you have the cam sensor wired in series with the crank sensor. Most likely you have the pinout on one or both of them wrong. Cam sensor pinout viewed looking into connector, Out=trig 2, Gnd= Sensor ground, S=Shield: Crank pinout: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 23 minutes ago, Adamw said: This scope has revealed a further wiring issue, which I will cover next, but the scope shows the ecu is happy with the trigger signal and would be commanding a spark. The new issue is when you reversed the crank sensor wiring, we see in the scope that your cam signal has also reversed. You can also see cross talk from the crank sensor on the cam signal. This means somehow you have the cam sensor wired in series with the crank sensor. Most likely you have the pinout on one or both of them wrong. Cam sensor pinout viewed looking into connector, Out=trig 2, Gnd= Sensor ground, S=Shield: Crank pinout: I swapped polarity on only crank last night, and this morning before work I tried to swap the cam to see if I had mistaken it for the crank. When I tried to fire with only crank reversed there was no spark so I tried swapping the cam and that’s the trigger scope I sent. Sorry I didn’t have much time before work I’ll be home in an hour to try swapping cam back around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Adamw said: This scope has revealed a further wiring issue, which I will cover next, but the scope shows the ecu is happy with the trigger signal and would be commanding a spark. The new issue is when you reversed the crank sensor wiring, we see in the scope that your cam signal has also reversed. You can also see cross talk from the crank sensor on the cam signal. This means somehow you have the cam sensor wired in series with the crank sensor. Most likely you have the pinout on one or both of them wrong. Cam sensor pinout viewed looking into connector, Out=trig 2, Gnd= Sensor ground, S=Shield: Crank pinout: When I’m cranking ign shows active and blinks. Rpm is picking up around 200rpms. I’m able to achieve spark by testing the coil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Adamw said: This scope has revealed a further wiring issue, which I will cover next, but the scope shows the ecu is happy with the trigger signal and would be commanding a spark. The new issue is when you reversed the crank sensor wiring, we see in the scope that your cam signal has also reversed. You can also see cross talk from the crank sensor on the cam signal. This means somehow you have the cam sensor wired in series with the crank sensor. Most likely you have the pinout on one or both of them wrong. Cam sensor pinout viewed looking into connector, Out=trig 2, Gnd= Sensor ground, S=Shield: Crank pinout: heres with cam sensor back to iriginal wiring trig9.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 22, 2023 Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 No, now the crank signal has flipped, cam is still the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, Adamw said: No, now the crank signal has flipped, cam is still the same. Will reverse now 15 minutes ago, Adamw said: No, now the crank signal has flipped, cam is still the same. how about now i used continuity to verify it is correct wire and swapped them still no spark. trig10.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 22, 2023 Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 Crank is correct, cam is still inverted. There should definitely be a spark though as the scope shows the ecu has synced, even with the cam inverted. So you possibly have some other setting issue such as the immobiliser or ign switch signal. Please attach a PC log of it cranking and a copy of your tune. To clarify: You still have an issue with your cam sensor wiring that needs fixing, but that is currently not the cause for no spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 28 minutes ago, Sguzy said: Will reverse now how about now i used continuity to verify it is correct wire and swapped them still no spark. trig10.llgx 78.39 kB · 0 downloads inverted the cam. working on pc log now trig11.llgx 2 minutes ago, Sguzy said: inverted the cam. working on pc log now trig11.llgx 83.62 kB · 0 downloads heres the pc log im not sure if i did that correctly and a copy of my current tune PC Datalog - 2023-08-21 8;06;14 pm.llgx e30 m50NV turbo.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Sguzy said: inverted the cam. working on pc log now trig11.llgx 83.62 kB · 0 downloads heres the pc log im not sure if i did that correctly and a copy of my current tune PC Datalog - 2023-08-21 8;06;14 pm.llgx 634.85 kB · 0 downloads e30 m50NV turbo.pclx 475.14 kB · 0 downloads I ended up re uploading a base tune and now I have spark. Started but running very rich! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 22, 2023 Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 Make sure your spark edge is set to falling, you have it set to rising in the map attached above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sguzy Posted August 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Adamw said: Make sure your spark edge is set to falling, you have it set to rising in the map attached above. Ok, I seen another post with vag r8 coils and it said to set it on rising for those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 22, 2023 Report Share Posted August 22, 2023 You have possibly fried them with it set to rising. Set it to falling and confirm you still have a spark on each coil using test mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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