Tomas H Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Hi guys I have a Storm black running a M3 S65B40 V8 in a Bmw E46. I'm using the S85 triggermode and has all 4 vvt cams active. The car is tuned on the dyno and runs well, BUT, after a bit of driving and usually about 20-40min, it gets trigger 1 error and pretty much just dies/ runs like crap/ wont start... If I then turn off the VVT and change the triggermode to 60-2 and only use the trigger 1(Flywheel). It starts(after some attemts, no cam sync) and works fine, no trigger errors from trigger 1. I dont get any error counts on the cam sensors. Does someone have any idea what may cause this? // Tomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Can you grab a trigger scope and a couple minutes of logging when idling normally, and another scope + normal log when trying to start it after it fails? Are you powering the key/ecu right off before attempting to restart it or just flicking between key on and start? Ie are you clearing the trigger error counts if any exist? This will tell us if we are looking for a mechanical issue that breaks triggering until it "cools down", or an accumulation of errors that is fixed by power cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 I'm powering the ecu before attemting to start, so yes Im clearing the error counts. I dont use ecu hold power. I gonna upload some logs and triggerscoop shortly. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 I drove the car for about 50min today and logged everything. It's nothing wrong with trigger 1, It's the camsync that fails. I do have errorcounts on the cam sensors. The errorcounts seems to start after about 10min. Maybe my cam sensors are bad? Or do they overheat maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Can you attach the triggerscopes so we can confirm? Only the LH Exhaust cam sensor is used for the trigger so if you suspect a failing sensor you could always swap LH & RH cam sensors to see if the trigger error disappears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 I swaped the LH Exh and RH Exh sensor but no, same problem. I measured the signal voltage on the LH exh sensor(trigger 2 cable) and the voltage is around 2-4V when the Engine is cool, but it rises to around 12V when I driven the car for 10min and the errorcounts starts. Is this normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 This is a logg when i drive the car for 40min. The car had been running for 20min at home and I started the logging when I started driving. problem.llg This is at 2000rpm, when the Engine runs fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Hmmm, thats a weird one. I really would have thought it could only be the sensor that caused what you are seeing here. I dont know these engines well but most common automotive hall effect sensors dont have built-in pull up resistor so when connected to an ECU the signal on the trigger scope should only show the same voltage as the ECU internal pull-up in our case it is about 5V. So Im a little suspicious when I see 14V on yours. I wonder if there is a short to 12V somewhere in the wiring? Or maybe sensor pinout is wrong and it causes the sensor to over heat? I have a friend with a S85B50 so I can possibly measure the stock voltage and pinout on this in the weekend for you (assuming they would be the same sensor?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Yeah It's really weird. My tuner and I is going to check the wiring and measure everything relevant, this weekend I hope. The S85 sensors are actually not the same. They are grey with a different connector. The S65 are black and seems identical to the sensor in the M47 and M57 Bmw diesel engines, apart from the part# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2018 The ecu is putting out about 10v on the digital inputs to the cam sensors with the ignition on and engine off, cold engine. When I turn the pullup off it goes to 0. The pullup should only be 5V right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 Is the wiring harness made from scratch, or the factory one with minor tweaks. Looks like you might have a 12v pullup wired in outside of the ECU somewhere. Thats the only thing I can think of that would bring the signal up to 14.6v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 24, 2018 Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 16 hours ago, Tomas H said: The ecu is putting out about 10v on the digital inputs to the cam sensors with the ignition on and engine off, cold engine. When I turn the pullup off it goes to 0. The pullup should only be 5V right? The pull-up for the Digital inputs is regulated 12V. The pull-up on the trigger inputs in 5V. So it is normal to see ~10V on the sensors connected to the DI's, but for the sensor connected to trigger 2 we should only see about 5V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted June 24, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Adamw said: The pull-up for the Digital inputs is regulated 12V. The pull-up on the trigger inputs in 5V. So it is normal to see ~10V on the sensors connected to the DI's, but for the sensor connected to trigger 2 we should only see about 5V. Okej, I see. The trigger 2 voltage is fine for about 20min of driving, then it starts to rise. It was about 8v when it started to error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas H Posted July 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 I solved the problem. The cam sensors started to bleed through +12 to the signal wire when they got warm. I changed the supply to +5V and everything seems to be working fine now =). everywhere I looked the sensors should be +12v, but that was obviously wrong. Don't believe everything on the internet, haha. Big thanks for the support! MagicMike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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