Reallly failing first initial start

[EssexStu]

Hi all, wonder if some ones able to point out my error and allow my engine to start after many many many many many attempts with my V44

It’s a 2.9 V6 24v Ford Cosworth Engine from a 1996 Ford Scorpio (UK Car) – Engine code “BOBâ€, with two custom exhaust manifolds and turbo’s

Fueling is set to Multi-Point Group, injecting cylinders 1,2 and 3 together on the RH cylinder head and cylinders 4, 5 and 6 together on the LH Cylinder head. Have witnessed these injecting correctly as removed the inlet plenum and visually watched them firing in three’s, in turn. (Injectors are upgraded to 440cc impreza side feed injectors)

Crank Trigger is done by the factory sensor and the factory crank wheel 36-1 pickup, and when cranking I’m getting a good 170rpm

Ignition is done by the factory standard wasted spark, 6 cylinder ford coil pack. This is wired up as so that ignition 1 does cylinders 1 and 5, ignition 2 does cylinders 2 and 6, and ignition 3 does cylinders 3 and 4. The firing order (also as per factory) is 1-4-2-5-3-6.

Mechanical cam timing I’m happy with (checked numerous times prior to full assembly) and good compression (176 to 183 across the 6)

Down to getting the car started. Disable fuel pump and injectors so just spark. My crank pulley has 3 markings. TDC, 10 BTDC and approx. 45 BTDC (not used that 1 yet). The timing pin from the front engine cover sits slightly left of vertical top. The crank sensor sits around 10 o’clock

With the software “Lock Ignition Timing to:†set to 10.0 Degrees BTC. The timing light also set to 10. Looking at the second timing notch (just right of the TDC notch), to get the flash to line up, I enter -40 into the “Adjust Offset until Ignition Timing matches the above number:â€

If I also line the pin from timing cover up with the 10 BTDC, the open missing tooth is behind, and its 4 teeth around to the crank sensor (so in my head, tallies up to 4 teeth, causing the -40 figure needed?)

However, turn everything on… lots of cranking and occational backfire up both exhaust and occationally intake.

The closest ive had (when realllly playing with numbers) was: Locking timing to: 0, and adjust offset until ignition timing matches the number: 10. – With these settings plucked from thin air, I got a sped up crank (like when the engine is attempting to run and speeds up the cranking), however, im yet to hear a proper staged splutter / crank to fire her up…

Many hours in, I know im probably missing something stupid… so please please if anyone has the time, point me in the right direction. Would love to get her running by my own fingers, in workshop

If its of any help, the latest map I’ve saved was from yesterday and I have uploaded to :

http://www.flashgaming360.co.uk/mr2mini/files/24vTT-june.pcl

Thanking anyone who has a few minutes spare in advance.

Stuart Shepherd

[Simon]

Hi Stuart

Looking at the firing order you have given of 1-4-2-5-3-6 The ignition should be wired as follows.

Ign 1 = Cyl 1&5

Ign 2 = Cyl 4&3

Ign 3 = Cyl 2&6

From your post you will need to change Ign 2 and 3 outputs around.

You might also need to play with the master fuel to get the mixture to a point it will fire.

[EssexStu]

Thanks for quick reply and time to read my rather long post, you logic on the ignition definately makes sence so will swqp that over tonight, would explain the popping! With reguards to fueling, is it worth me going into negative percentage fuel to prevent over fueling the increase?

Also, is my method for doing the offset timing correct?

Thanks :-)

[Dave Kriedeman]

The way you have explained setting the offset to set the timing is correct.

One thing i need to ask however,

In your discription you mention you select 10 degrees and that your "TIMING LIGHT IS ALSO SET TO 10 DEGREES".

Are you using a dial back (adjustable) timing light, if so

MAKE SURE IT IS SET TO 0.

If you are commanding 10 degrees, you want to see 10 degrees, without any other influences.

EG; Adjustable timing light.

Just wanted to clarify.

[EssexStu]

Its the snap on, red timing light with the 5 push buttons. From the guy who owns it, taken his word that i wanted to go upto 10 on the gauge. Is that correct??

After setting up the correct firing order. Had another play tonight and with 10 deg on the software and offset at -90 Or +270 ish i can get her to successfully caugh n splutter and actually ran in a limp style for 5 to 10 seconds, but battery struggling so stopped to give that a good trickle charge. When going theu spluttering she was givin some heavier soot, eo turned down fuel pressure from 5 bar to 4 bar and played with -20% ish on the master fueling - assuming correct way to adjust fuel on first startup when no main parameters to set?

Again thanks for time reading, all input welcome to help get her running finally :-)

Thanks :-)

[Dave Kriedeman]

If you command 10 degrees in the lock timing feature, you are looking for 10 degrees.

The timing light should be set to 0.

If you have the timing light set to +10 degrees and you are seeing 10 degrees, then really your timing is 0 (TDC).

By adjusting the timing light you are electronically changing the strobe light reaction.

I suggest that you also remove your sparkplugs and clean them.

They may have heavy carbon fouling on them by now or even wet raw fuel.

Wet or fouled plugs coupled with 10 degree retarded timing will definately add to your starting issues.

Set timing light to 0.

Adjust your offset in the software until the timing light indicates 10 degrees.

Remove, clean or replace with new, the sparkplugs.

Crank the engine with the injectors turned off or disconnected.

Confirm the the timing is 10 degrees with timing light set at 0.

Adjust your MASTER FUEL NUMBER TO SAY 4 or 5.

Make your fuel trim % = 0.

Crank the engine, trim fuel in small % and dont be afraid to use VERY SMALL CONSTANT THROTTLE OPENING.

Open the throttle slightly and hold at a constant position (EG 3 - 5 %) while cranking.

Adjust the trim to add or subract fuel while cranking.

It is better to start at small values and work your way up as this has less tendancy to want to wet or foul the plugs.

Once you have the engine running, recheck your timing using the same procedure you have been using.

[EssexStu]

Excellent thanks :-) will try that word for word n fingers crossed have her up n running, very much appreciated :-) :-)

Will report back once had a go, thanks

:-)