First start. Vipec V44. No fuel or ignition. Help please.

[MMC_Tuner]

Hi there, 

 

I can't seem to get fuel or spark.

I've tested all my injector and ignition outputs.  I can hear them activating when selected.

It's a plug in ecu (evo 123 ) being utilised on a Mitsu GTO.

I've configured the additional injector outputs and ignition output along with aligned the configuration to suit.  I'm going to validate injector firing order next .

 

My questions are :

1. Run time values - should injectors and ignition be triggering on and off whilst cranking?  I can see my fuel pump change to ON when cranking and rpm increase to 180 rpm approx.   I can smell the fuel so I'm assuming some fuel is being injected.

 

2.  What is a good starting point for master fuel under fuel main?.  it was 5ms initially.  Stock injectors.

 

3.  Is there a way to change ref timing ? Or is this fixed ?  Currently on 10 deg fixed.  What does this affect?

 

4. Are there any settings in the software that prevents the engine from starting?  Like a protection setting ? 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Photos below show state when key is in and on vs key is cranking and engine not firing up.

 

Thanks.

[Adamw]

Hold power shows on, so that would suggest the ignition switch input is not working/connected.

[MMC_Tuner]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

Hold power shows on, so that would suggest the ignition switch input is not working/connected.

Thank you for replying.

 

So the ecu needs to utilise the ign switch input in order to activate injectors and spark? as opposed to seeing crank triggers?

What is the logic that the vipecs/links use with the ign swith and ecu hold functions?

My first vipec install and setup.  Much appreciated.  I'll investigate the ign sw input and confirm polarity is correct also.

[MMC_Tuner]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Hold power shows on, so that would suggest the ignition switch input is not working/connected.

I found it. 

 

Sounds like it could be it and it explains the ignition switch function in relation to the stepper motor.

 

A stepper motor delete not only uses 4 outputs but also one input.   I think it'll definitely be on the cards to delete the stepper motor and convert to a 2 wire idle valve..

 

 

[Adamw]

The Evo plug-in is still designed to use the factory ECU hold power circuit, so you will still need the main ignition switch input and main relay control as per factory, regardless of whether you keep the stepper or not.  

[MMC_Tuner]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

The Evo plug-in is still designed to use the factory ECU hold power circuit, so you will still need the main ignition switch input and main relay control as per factory, regardless of whether you keep the stepper or not.  

Ok, thanks.

Will give it a go today and hopefully she fires up.

 

Any advice on questions 2 and 3?

4 has been answered. (ign switch input acting like an immob function).  Also i noticed there is a specific immob function also that could be used.  Pretty handy

 

 

Thanks.

[Adamw]

2. Stock injectors master probably 20-30ms.

3. You can lock the timing to whatever value you like.  Read the help file page: VX ECU Tuning Functions > Triggers > Calibrate
 

[MMC_Tuner]

8 hours ago, Adamw said:

2. Stock injectors master probably 20-30ms.

3. You can lock the timing to whatever value you like.  Read the help file page: VX ECU Tuning Functions > Triggers > Calibrate
 

ok so no luck tonight.

I checked each coil and they all fire in order using test function.

1 fires 1 + 4 

2 fires 2 + 5

3 fires 3 + 6

Fire seq = 123456

 

Injector test ( i only verified 3 front injectors ( 5,3,1) and they all correctly align with injector outputs 5,3,1.

 

I dont even get bangs or pops which usually relate to a sequencing issue.

The CAS hasn't been moved from the factory ECU position.

Am i missing something?

Ignition switch inputs changes state and starter signal changes state when starting.

ECU hold is constant.

Triggers look OK.

No limits that i can see stopping it from firing up.

Attached is a log file and the PCL file.

Any further help appreciated.

Would love to get this thing fired up and setup functions.

Thanks!

 

not starting Log 27-09-21 6;51;04 pm.llg 1990 GTO TWIN TURBO Kilan resetted No ANV extra.pcl

[Adamw]

Did you try the master fuel higher as suggested earlier?  Do you have a spark when cranking?  Have you confirmed trigger offset with a timing light?

[MMC_Tuner]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

Did you try the master fuel higher as suggested earlier?  Do you have a spark when cranking?  Have you confirmed trigger offset with a timing light?

Yes. Set to 15ms.

Spark confirmed using test only via test light.  It was odd actually with the test light test.  Although waste-spark, one cylinder would trigger the light in test mode but not the shared cylinder.

I thought maybe the spark plugs were cactus and yes.. they were fouled and in a poor state.  I tested the spark again after removing spark plugs and the test light now worked when spark plugs were arcing to the head.  I'm replacing spark plugs and will give it another go.

Note: 

Spark was not confirmed while cranking (lockdown here. Doing this solo at the moment).

 

Does the log indicate that ignition is being triggered correctly along with fuel ?

 

As long as they are doing what they should, I'll replace plugs, upgrade injectors while everything is apart also (not the best motor to work on).

[Adamw]

5 minutes ago, MMC_Tuner said:

Yes. Set to 15ms.

Didnt I suggest 20-30ms though?  15ms would be suitable for about an 600-800cc injector.  I suspect stock injectors would be more like 400cc. 

 

10 minutes ago, MMC_Tuner said:

Does the log indicate that ignition is being triggered correctly along with fuel ?

Yes the log shows inj PW and ignition dwell, but that does not mean there is a spark and the spark is at the right time.  And it also cant show there is fuel pressure in the rail and the injectors are working.  It needs the timing checked with a timing light and for fuel you can try a squirt of starter fluid to confirm if there is a fuel problem or not.  

 

 

 

[josey]

On 9/28/2021 at 12:13 AM, Adamw said:

Didnt I suggest 20-30ms though?  15ms would be suitable for about an 600-800cc injector.  I suspect stock injectors would be more like 400cc. 

 

 

 

sorry for offtopic,

master fuel adjustment, the bigger injectors the smaller the master fuel number?

20-30 is for 400ccm

15 is for about 800ccm

6-7 is for about 1600ccm

4 is for biggest possible, for 2000 and above?

im using this setup for years, and its working, or i have misunderstand you.

 

 

@MMC_Tuner

ok, im not following you, can you repeat for me

first, in runtime values, does ECU "see" that engine is rotating when you crank the engine ?

if not, check sensor wiring

if yes, check spark while cranking

if there is no spark,  (you can skip this step because you said on test you have spark)

if there is spark, and engine still don want to fire up, check timing (trigger offset)

if timing is ok, there is definitely no enough fuel, add more fuel as Adamw suggested 

 

 

[Adamw]

42 minutes ago, josey said:

sorry for offtopic,

master fuel adjustment, the bigger injectors the smaller the master fuel number?

20-30 is for 400ccm

15 is for about 800ccm

6-7 is for about 1600ccm

4 is for biggest possible, for 2000 and above?

im using this setup for years, and its working, or i have misunderstand you.

Correct, the original poster says he has "stock injectors" which I would assume are around 350-400cc, so this is why I suggested 25-30ms.  This is exactly the same as you state.  Im not sure what you are questioning?

 

 

[josey]

@Adamw

 

thanks

i obviously have some misunderstanding with what you wrote. my mistake sorry