Mike928
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Posts posted by Mike928
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On 12/18/2023 at 2:54 PM, Mike928 said:
Maybe I can put my multimeter on the ECU outputs during its operation?
From the pedal, I get no TP operation at all, I have done on #1 only but not now. I've even tried turning #2 off, everything for #2 off to see if I could get just one to work properly but that failed.
My Porsche has this flywheel sensor ring, 100 tooth with 2 slightly larger teeth at about 70 degrees advanced of TDC.
What setting do I put in PC-Link for this crank sensor config?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y4PQ52fRna0dMB1fVJQAvHVUmpAU91n9/view?usp=sharing
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15 minutes ago, Adamw said:
How do you know Aux 9 and Aux 17 are outputting the same polarity though? There is no polarity setting on Aux 9 to compare which is why I said to try aux 17 polarity both ways, I dont know which option duplicates Aux 9 behaviour without wiring up a test setup for myself.
This is because the ecu sees the throttle is jammed open when you are commanding it closed so it activates safety mode and shuts off the throttle relay. The return spring is shutting the throttle, not the ecu. In setup mode the safety functionality is disabled so the throttle stays powered up and will stay open if the polarity is reversed.
Maybe I can put my multimeter on the ECU outputs during its operation?
From the pedal, I get no TP operation at all, I have done on #1 only but not now. I've even tried turning #2 off, everything for #2 off to see if I could get just one to work properly but that failed.
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16 minutes ago, Adamw said:
There is no log in any of those most recent links. The older links on the previous page are still restricted. E-throttle 2 just looks reversed to me, does it not close when you change the aux 17 polarity?
The triggerscope log on the previous page shows no trigger signal, are you sure you clicked capture while the engine was cranking and not before?
I'll do them all again but it won't be for a while.
Yes #2 looks reversed but as I posted previously, feeding (+) into Aux9 and 17 at the ECU plug and (-) into Aux 10 and 18 similarly then inputing 12V via a pot both throttles open and close in perfect unison.
The video shows when #2 opens during 'on setup' mode, closes when changed back to 'on'.
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16 hours ago, Adamw said:
Go back into your sharing settings and set them to "anyone with link".
ok, done it.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gj4DrUf2ooiL_Z7Y0AjsBtGebB74vJus/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1He7TktZmRE3Mqy1SsliU9GcBBfx1zBRP/view?usp=sharing
1st pic is at the end of calibration [both] but still in 'On setup' mode.
2nd pic is 'on' mode straight after setup.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gPcQfcrPSX_hWnVRL77apEWNglClSVpx/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1g5UxKuCNxwIrI4V_yrMLSv3bSAWRAjvu/view?usp=sharing
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I_6DVirmptNf6l1lsymD0u6CHZfe8Mss/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LOUFWmpXAltvavkizvIbiLMDfiCdNzcU/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m8OnW4tWlH35WcEqRyqmaNOeLHL14OwU/view?usp=sharing
I note that both throttles are 6% open at rest, as soon as cranking starts, they shut hard and go back to 6% about 1 second after cranking stops.
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On 12/14/2023 at 3:12 PM, Adamw said:
Please attach the tune, a log of some pedal movements with the aux 17 polarity low, and another log with it set high. And a triggerscope capture of it cranking.
I can't upload anything Adam, limit too small?
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Will do, tomorrow. Thanks
Can't upload anything? 35.32kb limit?
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Will do, tomorrow. Thanks
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12 minutes ago, Adamw said:
That is normal. Is there some issue you are trying to solve?
Hi Adam, I still can't sort out my 2 E-throttles. As you know, I had to change the APS to a 2 pot one, which I've done and it responds nicely in PCLink. I have confirmed absolutely that the wiring is correct, as I can drive both throttles simultaneously from the ECU plugs with a remote pot. On completion of calibration, in 'on setup' mode still, #2 is fully open and #1 is fully closed. They both close when 'on setup' mode is exited. As you have suggested, I have setting #2 to 'Low' but no change in result. As you suggested, I tried manually calibrating #2 and the 'open' 'closed' voltages for TP Main and TP Sub stay as entered manually but the ecu immediately shuts off throttle relay 2, usually with error 94 or 99.
The other thing strange is I'm not getting an RPM signal, even though the Crank and Cam sensors are sorted.
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Why is it so?
First pic, E-throttle2 + [Aux17] is 'off' just like E-throttle1 + [Aux9].
Second pic, E-throttle 2 + [Aux17] is now PWM, even though its relay is 'off' but #1, Aux9 is 'off'?
Just now, Mike928 said:Why is it so?
First pic, E-throttle2 + [Aux17] is 'off' just like E-throttle1 + [Aux9].
Second pic, E-throttle 2 + [Aux17] is now PWM, even though its relay is 'off' but #1, Aux9 is 'off'?
file 2 too big
pic #2
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13 hours ago, Adamw said:
It is wrong as I said above, you need to swap the + & -. And it should have the shield connected, why do you think they went to the extra cost of using a 3 pin connector and shielded cable.
Absolutely, reading you loud and clear! Can and will do.
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On 11/25/2023 at 9:05 PM, Adamw said:
The trigger scope shows the crank sensor is wired incorrect polarity, so you need to swap the +/- wires at the crank sensor plug.
For the throttle, you will have to do a manual calibration on E-throttle 2. Temporarily set Aux 2 to off so power to the throttle is disabled. Open the run-times screen, go to the analog tab, push the throttle blade fully closed and note done the voltages shown on AN Volt 7 & 8. Then push the blade fully open and note down the voltages again.
Put the E-throttle in set-up mode then go to throttle position sensor 2 and manually type in the open/closed voltages for TP sub and main that you had noted down.
I have wired the crank sensor according to the attached document. an earth (-) and a signal, no shield?
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A better trigger scope.
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I just did some basic testing with a small test unit I have for testing injectors, idle stabilisers and Ethrottles.
I unplugged plug 'B' and plug 'D' from the ECU, bridged plugB#18 Aux9 & plugD#20 Aux17, the 2 (+) Ethrottle motor feeds, then I bridged plugB#26 Aux10 & plugD#21 Aux18, the 2 (-) Ethrottle motor feeds and connected my tester power wires to the 2 bridges and rotated the POT control knob and watched both Ethrottle plates opening and closing perfectly together. I did check the tester output polarity with my Fluke multimeter to be sure.
This shows me conclusively that the 2 Ethrottle bodies and the wiring right to the Thunder ecu is correct. So it has to be what I'm asking the ECU to do that is wrong somewhere?
The other thing I would greatly appreciate help with is the pedal sensor.
I mounted one to the complex Porsche mechanism [it does throttle, kickdown and trans cable] only to find it has the wrong internal system [only 1 pot]. So I bought a new one with the require dual pots and it works but it is too bulky to be fitted into this car and adapting to the other stuff.
I need a smallish unit like the Bosch rotary one but with dual pots and compatible with the Link Thunder with dual Ethrottles?
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I did get a result on the trigger scope for both triggers when I clicked on capture. It dropped the scale down from 20V to 1V.
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2 hours ago, Mike928 said:
ok, I'll give that a try. I just got back from my workshop with this other stuff, so I'll upload that now.
I did the 'capture' on scope mode and there is a result.
I hope I've got the things you need.
Trigger Scope Log 2023-11-23 11;58;02 am.llg 55.92 kB · 0 downloads Log 2023-11-23 11;21;21 am.llg 454.96 kB · 0 downloads
I changed Aux17 and TP2 Sub span, saved the file, closed PCLink, reopened it logged onto ECU, loaded the updated file, said yes to loading it ECU and storing it, powered ECU off and back on and re-calibrated it. As soon as I reset ethrottles 1&2 back 'on' mode it drops ethrottle2 relay and I have error code 32, 99. Working the AP moves only ethrottle1.
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18 hours ago, Adamw said:
Can you set Aux 17 polarity to low and TPS2 sub span to 100%, then store, do a power cycle and try the TPS cal again.
ok, I'll give that a try. I just got back from my workshop with this other stuff, so I'll upload that now.
I did the 'capture' on scope mode and there is a result.
I hope I've got the things you need.
Trigger Scope Log 2023-11-23 11;58;02 am.llg Log 2023-11-23 11;21;21 am.llg
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1 hour ago, Adamw said:
Can you attach a copy of the tune. A PC log of a TPS calibration procedure would be useful also.
attached
For the aux 14/15 open circuit, try temporarily setting the aux function to "test on" so the settings are available, then set the open circuit detection option to off, then you can turn the aux function back to off.
will do
For the triggerscope, are you clicking the capture button when the engine is cranking?
don't think I did, no?
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Some progress to report. I got to no errors reported in PCLink however, in this state Ethrottle 1 opened as the AP went down while Ethrottle 2 went from open to closed, then the reverse for AP being released.
Immediately I thought it has to be reversed polarity, though I have checked and double checked this by unplugging both ends of the loom and proving continuity and verifying wire to plug pin on both ends, plus Ethrottle one is wired exactly as Ethrottle 2 and it works properly.
So I swapped Aux17 and Aux18 to try it anyway and Link was not happy with that. I got errors 98,99 and Ethrottle 2 relay dropped out, so I put the Aux 17 &18 back.
When I do throttle calibration, it all seems to work and is reported as complete but watching the throttle plates #2 doesn't move through the whole process.
I did have no recognition of trig 1 or trig 2 but some adjustment to the settings and the now go from NO to YES on crank but I'm getting no signal readings on voltages or scope screen?
A14 & A15 are both OFF, nothing there but they show red as 'Open Circuit" why?
Log 2023-11-21 5;32;36 pm.llg 928_Link_Thunder_E-throttles.pdf
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22 hours ago, Adamw said:
If if goes through calibration then it sounds like it is working properly. The throttle relays will be switched off when the engine isn't running if you have it set to quiet mode. The fuel pump relay should only activate for the set prime time then switch off until the engine is cranked.
I'm not too sure what you mean here? Obviously the coils and injectors should be off when the engine isn't running. Or are you meaning when you are trying to start it? Attach a log if so.
I haven't tried to start it yet Adam, that's why they switch off I guess. I'm cautious about the first start as I want things to be right. I've built quite a few motors over the years but this is my first jump into all electronic controls and programmable ECU, so I'm learning as I go.
I have my error count down to 3 from 20ish!
My big question would be 'when is it ready for me to try it?
The coils and injectors are just listed as all off and I was expecting them to be on as the are powered. Just my ignorance.
I am learning a lot though.
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I've made some progress, mostly in learning the Link Thunder.
I've wired up the new Bosch 0 280 755 051 [2 pots] accelerator pedal and run the calibration successfully.
I then did the throttle body calibration successfully and the setup worked on PCLink, showing the throttles opening and closing, plus I could hear them. but the ECU still activates the 2 relays for the 2 throttle bodies and the relay for the fuel pump but shuts them off immediately? For a while Throttle #1 relay remained active [closed]. These are solid state relays that have an active/inactive LED on them, so it's easy to monitor.
I've checked the voltage at the supply for these relays and it's always been in the upper 12 volt range.
The other thing I note is that the 8 coils and the 8 injectors are always 'OFF'. As advised, I have powered the coils relay from an ignition source and confirmed the voltage in and out and powered the injectors from the same source as the ECU power, plug A pin 5.
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8 hours ago, Confused said:
Whilst some of the outputs can high side drive (switch 12v through the ECU), it's better to low side drive (switch ground through the ECU) wherever possible, in my opinion.
You have "GP Output" which you can use for a generic relay output, this can have a variety of parameters assigned to it for when it activates. DON'T use Engine Fan for this, UNLESS it's driving an engine fan relay - there's a whole set of logic behind this.
However - do you actually need to control the power to the coils from the ECU? When do you think you'll ever need to remove power from the coils? This will generally just be triggered from your ignition switch.
OK, that's easy to achieve, I'll trigger it from an Ign on fuse bank.
I've been reading and re-reading and it seems that I should power both the ECU pwr, plug A pin5 and the injector power from the same relay, as the ECU wants to know the actual voltage going to the injectors for accurate timing. So I'll fit another relay triggered from 'Main Relay' +&- to ow side switch this using Ign pin #2 on plug C to activate the ECU.
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On 10/12/2023 at 7:37 PM, Adamw said:
Yes, the ecu will switch off the relay if there is a potential safety issue with the throttle control.
As I said a few posts further up, the few wiring diagrams for car models that are listed against that sensor part number suggest it isn't a typical pedal sensor suitable for DBW. It is from a diesel engine, it appears to only have one position sensor and two switches. A multimeter will be able to confirm that pretty quickly. If you measure resistance between the gr/ge/gn wires while moving the sensor, if it has a potentiometer inside then you should see a nice linear change in resistance between two of those pins over the full range of movement. If it is a switch the multimeter will either show 0 or OL for most of the range then suddenly snap to the opposite at one end of the travel.
I now have both E-throttle bodies on their own relays, #1 triggered by Aux3 high and #2 triggered by Aux2 high. The pull in (-) side of each relay goes to ground. #1 relay supplies 12volt + to plug B pin 5 to supply Aux 9/10 and #2 relay supplies 12volt + to plug D pin 1 to supply Aux 17/18.
The injectors will be powered by the PDM.
The 8 coils have their own 120A relay as previously discussed these BERU coils [Porsche Cayenne] seem to need a lot of current. I've triggered this relay from Aux 5, as the PCLink help says Aux 5-10 can trigger switched high relays. I chose 'Engine fan' from the drop down for function as there is no general relay selection.
The APPS I think I'll just fit a new one of known type and condition. I'm looking at Bosch 0280755051 [attached] so I'll have to make yet another bracket.
Thunder PCLink settings
in G4+
Posted
If I was to machine a toothed ring for my Porsche flywheel, what would be the ideal/most accurate tooth setup?