INSW20
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Posts posted by INSW20
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1 hour ago, 0x33 said:
True, can't disagree with that. However most boosted engines I map in modelled dont see 100% VE until some boost, hence the comment that something is wrong with OP's setup as high scaling and numbers don't seem right compared to the norm. Typically these sorts of VE numbers is an indication of issue with setup.
Back to OP,
Any reason why your base fuel pressure is so high? 4.4 bar static on such a small pump will give some problems if you plan to run any kind of serious boost on this setup. Personally I'd set base fuel pressure to 3 Bar and start from there.
Your fuel pressure differential should be a flat line under pretty much all circumstances, which matches your base fuel pressure that you set. Any drop in differential fuel pressure means that your fuel system is bottlenecking somewhere. If its doing weird drops under cruise conditions, imagine what it could do when you go into boost and really put some load on fuel system, you might loose fuel pressure altogether if pump can't keep up.
As for injector timing, to test this with your setup, hold the RPM at say 3000rpm. Don't change anything other than injector timing, and see where the lambda goes richest. This will be a good indication of how to dial in injector timing for a more efficient burn, which usually makes throttle response a bit crisper.
So first, disclaimer: I agree with everything you're saying. I *could* update to a larger adjustable FPR, but I want to make sure I'm not missing something else before spending that money.
My current FPR is too small for my pump, but the pump was fine last year. Plan is to run max of 20psi boost on E85 once I get to that point, but short-term I'm not looking for over 10psi on pump gas. Immediate term, I'm just trying to get into 5-10psi smoothly with some kind of return to how it ran last year. Here's all what I updated since it ran last: turbo, injectors/rail/FPR/fuel lines, coil on plug. The internals weren't touched. The previous FPR was a 50psi base, and the pump had no problem pumping against it.
I believe one reason my VE table is so high is that my injectors are set to 1065cc/min at the 3bar base, and my hypothesis is that the ECU does a linear extrapolation on injector flow, when it's not quite linear. So since my pressure is ~50% higher, the ECU expects 50% more flow, when it's actually more like 25% more flow. It then runs a smaller pulsewidth, which is offset by me adding to my VE table. So one more question: is there any way to set up an injector flow table?
I'll re-run the injector test. It seemed happiest at idle at 270btdc, but since it's set up as a table, can certainly try it at 3000rpm and extrapolate from there.
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Thank you for the input!!
For the fuel pressure, it's an Aeromotive 340lph and a Bosch 3 bar FPR, which is rated to flow 220lph if I'm not mistaken. So what I was expecting to happen seems to be occurring, that when the injectors open and take load off the FPR it's allowing a drop in rail pressure. I had rescaled my injectors to 1305cc @ 65psi pressure and that helped lower my VE table numbers, but the drivability wasn't any better/worse. Fuel pressure sensor is one of these: https://www.haltech.com/product/ht-010920-bosch-150psi-fluid-pressure-and-temperature-sensor/
The car was previously filled with E75, and filled a couple times since with E10 (all local stations have some E content) but I believe I have the interpolation set to 100% fuel map 1 at the current ethanol content. I'll still adjust my fuel table 2 to be less of a mess. EDIT: I checked and my fuel table blend is 8%. I can adjust that to 0% for current ethanol content.
I can try advancing the injection timing as well, but on stock cams and cam degreeing, the intake valve max lift is about 250 BTDC, so I tried to aim end of injection slightly before then. Is that still too late?
Again, I appreciate the help!
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Can anyone on here point me in the right direction on if I'm looking at more of an ignition timing or a fueling issue (or both?) as to why my car feels soooo sluggish taking some quick drives. It's certainly not optimized yet, but it seems like I'm less and less able to determine if it's getting better or worse with some changes I've made.
I *feel* like it wants more ignition timing, but I'm hesitant to do that at this point. Compression ratio is around 9.3:1-9.5:1, running 93 octane. My goal is to get it reasonably safely into boost so next time I take it to the dyno I can get some useful tuning completed. I'm not trying to 100% street tune, but last time on the dyno the tuner had a tough time getting it into boost without severe stumbling, which seems to be mostly fixed, it's just not smooth at this point.
2.1L 3SGTE (91mm crank)
ID1050x
plug gap at .028"
1zz coils
stock cams (236/236 degrees)
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To close the loop on this, here are my trigger scopes.
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20 minutes ago, essb00 said:
Any reason why your dwell control table is Batt Voltage vs MGP?
Typically it is Batt Voltage vs Engine Speed (RPM)It could be that the tiny fluctuations on MGP (not logged due to filtering, & PC logging limited to 40Hz or ECU logging limited to 100Hz) are causing those dwell time dips.
Better change it to Batt Voltage vs Engine Speed (RPM).Mostly that my understanding is that spark voltage requirements are more closely tied to MGP than RPM. I can certainly change it back and re-test. I guess what I don't understand is that my dwell map is constant across all MGP currently, so even if it were dropping off the edge of the map, shouldn't it extrapolate/extend the last column values?
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I've noticed several times where my dwell time drops significantly below what's shown in my dwell table. Log, cal, and screenshot attached. It's especially prevalent at the end of the log when it's sitting at idle. Any ideas what could be causing this?
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Here is my most recent map and useful log file for this. It's using an AEM 30-4110 that was calibrated in open air and then again in a fuel vapor environment to get full-rich and full-lean readings to plug into the cal table. I've confirmed I'm not getting trigger errors now, also.
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Leaned it out a little bit and increased trigger threshold and it's still got some dips/stumbles. Maybe it's just the old fuel (E85, 9-10 months old) that needs to finish burning out of the tank... It seems to be better when it's warmer and any time I bring the revs up.
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20 minutes ago, koracing said:
#threadjacking That's your fuel pump output. I would choose another output. Aux 3 is your factory hi/low boost control ouptut. Aux 4 is your factory hi/low fuel pump voltage relay - either of these I have used to drive a MSD 8920 tach adapter on COP setups to drive the gen2 tach.
Yeah, complete jack. I was searching for tacho output and somehow ended up here... So I'll confirm if there's not already wire in pin23, but I'm not using the OEM fuel pump wiring at all, so I chose Aux7 due to its proximity to the current IGT (IGN1) pin, since I'm using the COP expansion harness already. Without the factory FP wiring, any problem with Aux7 then? Thank you!
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Just want to confirm before I make the wiring change, Aux7 on a 3SGTE V1 (TST185+) can be used to drive the tach through a tach adapter? I'm running a coil on plug setup on a gen2 using the factory tach. I'm not getting any usable output from pin 20 (IGN1) and my tach doesn't function currently. The direction I've received from the tach adapter supplier is to change to an available aux output for it to function properly.
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Yep, and that's what was so confusing to me. Any misfire should show lean, so I don't know why it's showing rich when it stumbles for a split second.
This should be the trigger scope from idling during warmup at about 1200rpm:
Trigger arming threshold is 0.6V at that point. Do I need to bump that to 1.2-1.5V?
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Thanks! I'll lean it out and see if it's any better, or at least not worse
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Is that what I'm getting here?
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Yep, boost control is the blue 2-pin connector under the intake manifold. Some people sell the MAC valve with the correct mating connector already installed, so it's 100% plug and play.
If you're not going to run TVIS, what I did for my ethanol sensor was pulled 12V from the TVIS connector for power to it.
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It cranked over SO. MUCH. better after adjusting the trigger threshold for trigger 2. No kickback, no backfires. It still took just over 2 seconds of cranking, but I think that's now down to my enrichment/CLL needing further polishing. And still seems like it's not horrible for E85 on a cold start, 55F, on non-optimized fuel and ignition maps.
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I haven't seen anything that I can see in the logs that shows it, but I will adjust my trigger arming thresholds. Looking more closely at the log, it looks like I'm cranking for almost .5 seconds before any RPM is registered in the ECU. I'm basing this off when battery voltage drops compared to when I first see the engine speed jump to 264rpm.
So it's reasonable that anywhere from 5-20* BTDC ignition timing would be acceptable for E85 cold start?
EDIT: My trigger 1 threshold is .2V at 0rpm and .5V at 1000. Trigger 2 is 0.5 and 1.0, respectively. I'll adjust 2 down and see if that helps.
Another edit: It's showing trigger errors.
Is there no error counter for Trigger 2?I just read that the trigger error covers both, since if there's a problem with either trigger it'll increment the error count. -
I've moved in the wrong direction slightly. =(
It seems like I'm getting a lot of kickback during cranking (this has been common ever since I got it running). I have noticed several backfires that heat my IAT sensor (mounted in TB inlet) enough to kick my intercooler fan on (set to 120F threshold). I tried lowering my cranking ignition timing to 5* with no real difference, other than it seemed worse.
My best log so far for starting is from Tuesday's post (3SGTE Startup Warmup Idle log) . Attached is one from tonight that wasn't as smooth. It looks to me like it needs more crank enrich, and more post-start enrich. Aside from that, what am I missing? What else could be causing so much kickback and backfires into the intake?
Thanks for all the help! Once I get the start a little better I'll be trailering it to the tuner (200 miles away).
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FWIW, I'm getting a PW of 2.449 with an effective PW of 1.520 on mine with a stable idle lambda, using ID1050x's.
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2 hours ago, koracing said:
I've got some pretty decent startup setttings for a car here I'm running on 77% ethanol that I've been getting good cold starts out of down to 35°F ambient temps in the last couple weeks. It's got 1000cc Bosch injectors (from Fuel Injector Connection).
Personally I've switched to using the AFR lambda overlay map for cold start enrichment and the warm up enrichment table is largely zeroed out. I just set the AFR to subtract from target at lower ECT using modelled fuel equation. In addition to that, it becomes possible to use closed loop from the minimum of 32°F (0°C) if one so desires.
That's excellent advice, I'll check that out and hopefully come back soon with good results.
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Perfect, thank you!
Yep, I just wanted to get it running with what was in the tank, and once it goes to the tuner I'll let them take it from there, whether they want to tune petrol or E85 first. I figure the more I can get set up reasonably well before getting there, the less hours I'll get charged and the more they can focus on the mapping and more complicated feature setup.
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Here's the update on where it stands with cold start and idle. I have a couple small adjustments I think I need to make on initial startup and warmup enrichment.
Other than that, do I understand the VE table that the entire columns should be the same value more or less? I know there will be minor variations in VE due to changes in backpressure under boost and things like that, but overall should be relatively close?
I believe I need to wait to tune accel enrichment until after the map is complete, but is there anything else I should look at before taking it for tuning?
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Yep, that's what it was for me. My trigger offset was -3, and car would only backfire. Changed to 357 and it more or less started right up.
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Those changes seem to have helped tremendously! My fuel VE table is just about 70% at idle now at 1.05 lambda, and the engine seems happy idling there hot. Thanks everyone for all the help! If anyone has any further suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them.
)
Sluggish 3SGTE
in G4+
Posted
I didn't mean it like that. =) As always, thanks for the help and clarification on all of this!
Correct, mostly went with that regulator for ease of fitment. Actually about to order a regulator from you to get my pressure issue fixed. Was going to get the Radium, but if you think the Aeromotive is better quality, I'll go with that.
A couple of the dead times I adjusted to get stable AFR's trying to load the electrical system (turning lights and fans off/on).
It's a gen2 stroker with around about 9.3:1 compression. It has 9:1 CP pistons, TRD head gasket, and the head was milled.