Rob W
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Posts posted by Rob W
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Pity no wideband. Would help tell you the full story.
I wouldn't worry about retuning it all if your happy with it the rest of the time.
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Don't buy a $60 IACV. Been there done that for research purpose. It did not fit as advertised and when I started fiddling about with it, it flew apart in my hands.
Do you have a wideband on the car? It is not picking up in the logs. CLL corr is up to -4% at idle.
Don't be to quick to blame the IACV. The best thing you can do is retune the whole thing in open loop using the base position table. The Link help files are quite comprehensive covering this.
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I was having the same sort of issues.
Try changing your stepper reset to key off and make sure you are turning the car right off if you load a new map before a start and let the needles do their sweep on the dash. The stepper motor doesn't know where it is in the V5/6 so you have to reset it. Have a look at the help file for how to set the stepper min/max values.
Turn your idle ignition table off to do this idle calibration. Once you have it good turn it back on - but your idle ignition table is set to take over at below 1200rpm in the 70-80*c range, so you are dropping from 18 deg commanded in the main ignition table to between -2.5 to 2.5deg ignition. If you have 18* commanded in the main table for idle, 18* should be at the 0 column in the idle table and higher and lower values either side of it and it will then dither either side of the centre to keep your idle at the target rpm providing you have it set up nicely with your stepper motor and AFR first. EG 12-15-18-21-23
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If you extend the log right out there is some data right toward the end. It is idling in the one same cell hence the data in the mixture map being in one cell.
Maybe you woke up the tablet before you parked up and turned the car off
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Is the turbo too small? It's not holding boost
There are huge swings in Lambda at cruise from very lean to very rich. Quite frankly Lambda is way off its targets almost all of the time. Probably due to the large jumps in the fuel table between load points. At one point in cruise it is as high as 1.2 (17afr) @3000 rpm at steady throttle. It is also very lean at times in boost like .956 (13.8afr) @18psi. Just two examples of a constant theme.
For some reason it has 2 x Lambda Target Tables on one fuel type.
Generally 2* timing comes out for every 20kpa (3psi) load. Have a look at the ignition table - It's just sitting there in big blocks of the same and higher numbers.
The CLL is turned on with 0 gain and it doesn't seem to be making any corrections although the fuelling needs to be pretty close for it to work well anyway.
Put Lambda avg and Lambda Target together in your logging time plot and you'll see what's happening.
The knock control is turned off so we can't see what is going on there.
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On petrol it will be in the range of 190-220kw atw depending on how hard you push it
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For your cold start use the Warm Up Enrichment table.
Get your Lambda where the car is happiest at warm idle somewhere between .9 and 1.0
Start the car cold and follow it through the Warm up Enrichment table adjusting the values to suit whatever the car likes. Don't be set on a number. It may want to be richer than .9 on it way up in temperature. It will take more than one cold start to get it really nice.
That is a start point. I found to get it real nice it is a combination IAC control and Lambda over a period of time.
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What a beast mate.
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The Ballenger is another tempting unit. Used to be huge with the high power Supra guys back in the day. They don't appear to have CAN communication though?
my reading also indicated that the NTk sensors, while hearty, are sluggish in the response department. Have you found this to be the case?
What I have found is the ecu logs the information faster than you will see it on the guage, so if you were relying solely on the guage to see what the engine is doing you would miss some issues with fueling.
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I recently purchased a Ballenger AFR500 - has options for variety of sensors including the tougher NTK unit.
It also outputs a series of voltages to the ecu during warmup which gives calibration data at different points
Seems to be the wideband of choice on the Guild of EFI Tuners page before stepping up to the full on professional equipment.
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23 hours ago, ClintBHP said:
As a note UK pump super unleaded fuel is 14.4 Stoic as is most fuel worldwide where Toluene is used as the octane booster.
I recently found out that our BP98 in Aus is 14.4 as well Clint. All my maps are set up with 14.7 in the fuel set up in traditional mode. I don't use open loop Lambda control at the moment though.
I tune with an AFR500 set on Lambda mode and Lambda on the ecu
So is it worth changing that setting in the ecu ?
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Try something more along these lines and tweak the numbers from there
It will be most beneficial if you start by tuning the idle up with this turned off and use the base position and the block of timing in the idle area first. In your earlier logs it was happy at 15* meeting your target idle. The 26* or whatever it was in tuners basemap is quite uncommon and it might help if you start over.
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5 minutes ago, Ken Dunkley said:
Hi- An old saying is - An engine wants what it wants - . Perhaps make it richer in the areas where you feel this noticeable bucking. To me this is a sign of running lean . With your cams you can get intake reversion and all sorts of weird pressure waves happening that can effect smooth running . Especially at that point of light throttle and low/medium engine speed . Dont be stuck on A/F targets at this particular problem area - Try it at 0.9 and see how it runs .
Well said Ken. I mentioned in another forum that the wideband only measures "burnt fuel" and the cams skew the readings.
Mine Ej engine runs best at cruise .9-.95 with cams rather than the more traditional 1.0+
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So it was lean?
Good to hear you have it sorted
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5 hours ago, namre said:
Thanks. I have walked things through. About your last comment, I tried to disable ISC by deleting base position table but idle dropped to 500 rpm or so and stalled. I could not find how I can increase this without ISC. Can it be done by adjusting idle ignition table?
I think what CJ means is that you turn the Idle Ignition Control off, AC step, Fan Step, Power Steer Step to zero and tune the idle as best you can using the Base Position Table, then enable the IIC and switch up your fan step etc as you need it.
In your main ignition table there is a block of 25* timing where it idles, but when the Idle Ignition Control is actually active it idles at target with around 15* in the IIC table. Once it gets above the 45kPa lockout it jumps out of the IIControl and into the 25* and higher timing blocks in the main ignition table so the idle rises and fluctuates.
Try and get to your idle targets using the base position table and the block of timing in the idle cells. Edit: You should be able to change that block of 25* where it idles to 15* as per what it is using from the IIC table. Then turn the IIC back on with whatever timing you have in the idle blocks in the centre or "0 Target" column with lower timing in the left or "-" columns and higher timing in the right hand side. Be aware that if you have the car warmed up when you do this you'll need to chase the base position up when it's cold also or it won't want to start.
Consider your fuelling as well while your doing all this.
I'm not familiar with Ethrottle but this is how I have done it with Sol/Stepper. You're not going to get the whole warm up thing right from the very start, it takes a few times to get it spot on. This is why it is not always perfect when it comes back from a tuning shop unless they have the car for a few days, so just take your time.
Read the help files like CJ said for Open Loop Idle and Idle Ignition Trim.
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Another little issue there. Your warm up enrichment has 18-22% above 80*c. Engines will often be operating in that ECT range.
If you have a close look at log 3 at 89*c your avg Lambda at idle is .79, which is not far off WOT Lambda.
As soon as it hits 90*c the enrichment is 0% and Lambda jumps to .90 avg. Drops back to 89*c and richens up to .79 again.
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There are couple of reasons your idle ignition control is not working as well as it could:
1. Your TPS needs calibrating as it is showing 5.3% during idle - TPS lockout is set at 2% in your IIC setup tab so you are not getting below the lockout.
2. Your idle MAP is around 43kPa. Lockout is set to 45kPa so if it is slightly above it is not able to catch it. You could raise that to 60kPa. Your TPS lockout and speed lockouts will stop it from becoming active at the wrong time.
3. Rpm lockout is set to 1200rpm. Your warm up target is 1300rpm so you need to be above that.
Have you reduced the idle target from 1000 to 900 at 80-90*c.? Your base map in the other thread had 1000rpm there but I noticed in the logs now the target is 900rpm. Those cams seemed to be idling pretty stable for the most part around 1000rpm.
In your Idle Speed Control tab there are setting there that control things like when the engine fans, power steering and AC come on. Use those settings to sort out your fans and AC.
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Does the bucking sound like a lean misfire? Popping?
Your target Lambda at 65kpa is .95. It is oscilating between 1.04 and .98 over about 5kpa range in a very steady throttle position
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What engine is this?
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Yes, at least 30 seconds. It connects ok but won't let you do anything or start any logging. Then it sometimes does a brief freeze as well. If I open another file it does the same whether it is on or off the car.
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I'm finding 5.6.5 very slow to respond on start up
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Dive hose, Brass T and a short length of copper pipe on the engine block. Cut two pieces of hose about a foot long and make two neat holes in a set of ear defenders, put a length in each hole and use the brass T to join them to a piece of hose long enough to get to the engine. Put the end of the hose in the copper pipe and you will hear everything that engine is doing.
What is wrong with my tune?
in G4+
Posted
Simon, seriously mate, take the Horsepower Acadamy courses. You already seem to have a fair idea what you are looking at. HPA will simplify the whole process for you, break it down into a couple of main areas and give you the skills and confidence to slowly sort out this nightmare properly yourself. Not only will you gain a fuller understanding of fuel and ignition requirements, all your trims and enrichments, boost set up etc, they also do full video demonstrations on all aspects of tuning on many different platforms and those videos are available to watch over and over.