Hyperblade
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On 8/1/2020 at 9:09 PM, Adamw said:
A few need changing.
<snip>
Brilliant, thanks for the help!
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I'm looking at putting in an G4X XtremeX into my race car with a custom loom to a K20a Euro R motor and an S2000 gearbox, running Link CAN Lambda (via B Plug) and Link Dash via CAN (via B Plug).
It would be awesome if someone could eyeball the following and see if anything stands out as completely wrong.
A Loom
Pin Name Function Channel Assignment Notes A1 Injection 4 INJ-4 Injector Cyl 4 A2 Injection 3 INJ-3 Injector Cyl 3 A3 Injection 2 INJ-2 Injector Cyl 2 A4 Injection 1 INJ-1 Injector Cyl 1 A5 +14 volt supply +14 V ECU power supply A6 8 Volt 8V 8V Sensor supply TPS, ext map A7 Shield & trigger Ground Shield/Gnd Trigger shield & -VE gnds don't connect shields at engine end A8 Trigger 1 Trig-1 Crank Angle Sensor REF A9 Trigger 2 Trig-2 Exhaust Cam Position Sensor SYNC A10 Ignition 4 IGN-4 Coil Cyl 4 A11 Ignition 3 IGN-3 Coil Cyl 3 A12 Ignition 2 IGN-2 Coil Cyl 2 A13 Ignition 1 IGN-1 Coil Cyl 1 A14 Analog Volt 4 AV4 Fuel Pressure Sensor A15 Analog Temp Input 1 AT1 ECT Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor A16 Analog Temp Input 2 AT2 IAT Inlet Air Temperature Sensor A17 Analog Volt 1 AV1 Oil Pressure Sensor A18 Auxiliary Output 4 AUX-4 Electric Water Pump PWM Low side A19 Auxiliary Output 3 AUX-3 IACV Stock Honda K20a A20 Auxiliary Output 2 AUX-2 Vtec A21 Auxiliary Output 1 AUX-1 VTC A22 Analog Volt 2 AV2 MAP Sensor A23 Digital Input 3 DI3 Ign Switch A24 Ground Out GND Out 0V Sensor Ground To engine block A25 Ground GND ECU power ground To engine block A26 Auxiliary Output 8 AUX-8 Lift Pump Low side A27 Auxiliary Output 7 AUX-7 ECU Hold Power A28 Auxiliary Output 6 AUX-6 Fan Low side A29 Auxiliary Output 5 AUX-5 Fuel Pump Low side A30 Digital Input 1 DI1 Intake Cam Position Sensor A31 Digital Input 2 DI2 Speed Sensor Stock Honda S2000 A32 5 Volt 5V 5V sensor supply A33 Analog Volt 3 AV3 TPS TPS Main A34 Ground GND ECU power ground To engine block B Loom
Pin Name Function Channel Assignment Notes B1 Injection 8 INJ-8 Outboard Injector Cyl 4 B2 Injection 7 INJ-7 Outboard Injector Cyl 3 B3 Injection 6 INJ-6 Outboard Injector Cyl 2 B4 Injection 5 INJ-5 Outboard Injector Cyl 1 B5 +14V Aux 9/10 +14 V ECU power supply B6 Temp 3 AT3 Oil Temperature B7 Temp 4 B8 Knock 2 B9 Knock 1 B10 Ignition 8 IGN-8 B11 Ignition 7 IGN-7 B12 Ignition 6 IGN-6 B13 Ignition 5 IGN-5 B14 N/C B15 Analog Volt 6 AV6 Water Pressure B16 Analog Volt 7 AV7 B17 Shield & trigger Ground Shield/Gnd don't connect shields at engine end B18 Auxiliary Output 9 AUX-9 B19 Digital Input 6 DI6 B20 Digital Input 5 DI5 B21 Digital Input 4 DI4 B22 Ground Out GND Out 0V Sensor Ground To engine block B23 Analog Volt 8 AV8 B24 Analog Volt 9 AV9 B25 Ground GND ECU power ground To engine block B26 Auxiliary Output 10 AUX-10 B27 DI 10 / CAN 2 H CAN H CAN H B28 DI 9 / CAN 2 L CAN L CAN L B29 Digital Input 8 DI8 B30 Digital Input 7 DI7 B31 Analog Volt 10 AV10 Steering Angle Sensor B32 Analog Volt 11 AV11 Rear Brake Pressure Sensor B33 Analog Volt 5 AV5 Front Brake Pressure Sensor B34 Ground GND ECU power ground To engine block Is there other sensors worth adding in or at least adding wiring for?
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22 hours ago, Adamw said:
It should be ok through a single pin provided it can handle the current with a good safety margin above steady state to allow for in-rush and minimal voltage drop etc. An Xtreme for instance, 10 aux outputs capable of 2A each, 8 inj drives capable of 5A each = 60A total ground current fully loaded = unlikely to work through a single ground pin...
However if you only have 4 x injectors that pull 1A each and a few auxes pulling 0.5A then a single ground pin would be fine.
Thanks.
How do the standard wires handle 60A? My understanding was they were 22 AWG so around 7A each = 28A total which is quite a bit less then the 60A max?
6 hours ago, Leo Malcolm said:Was the intent of that "DO NOT JOIN" warning mostly so that someone doesn't combine too small of a gauge wire to all the power ground wires or was it more for noise immunity? Just intrigued.
I'm also curious about this as well.
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The manual has a very explicit warning not to combine the power grounds.
However I'm planning to go from the cabin through a bulkhead connector into the engine bay and I'm trying to reduce the number of pins required.
- Can they be combined on the other side of the connector in the engine bay with an appropriately sized wire which then goes to the engine block?
- Am I safe to do the same with both connectors so 4 wires into 1 pin?
- Or run each wire all the way, so 4 pins required on the bulk head connector.
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33 minutes ago, Adamw said:
If its a two wire solenoid then yes you should be fine to connect +12V constant to one side and lowside drive the other side directly with an Aux. I suspect the note in the help file was probably based on using the factory loom which has one side of the solenoid permanently grounded.
Thanks, I figured as much but was wondering if i had missed something special about them
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In the Manual for setting up a K20a it mentions
"Extra relay required as from the factory the VTEC solenoid is wires as power (+) switching
Can this be changed to do ground switching via the ECU in a custom loom?
Just trying to limit the number of relays i'm using.
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Hyperblade, did you have any luck getting torque to work with the Android 7?
I gave up and went to a Windows tablet running PCLink which works better.
The other thing I wanted was Oil Pressure which I couldn't get through OBD2 so it wasn't the best option for my use case.
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After doing a bit of research recently into running a tablet as the primary dash for my car here's some thoughts...
Hardware:
For the older Windows tablets using Micro usb you should be wary of any claims of being able to charge and have a device connected, a lot of descriptions of the adapter cables are wrong as it totally depends on the tablet, so make sure you do your research first, if in doubt it likely doesn't support both at same time.
However I believe the new tablets which support USB C may be better in this regard, again do your research first.
Performance of PcLink on lower speced windows tablets (1.3ghz quad cpu, 1gig ram etc) is actually very good, PcLink will be very slow as the software initially connects to the ecu, and the display wont respond for a good 10 seconds, but once it syncs up it works perfectly.
Here's my 8 Inch acer tablet with Windows 10 and PcLink with different layouts
Because I could not charge and display data at same time I just ran it on battery, it lasted for a good 5-6 hours which was impressive.
To me there's no point in having a tablet that can't charge and display so I replaced the above with a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2 (2 usb ports, 10 inch) with Windows 10 and PcLink
This charges and runs at the same time which is perfect.
Setup:
Setting up PcLink for the tablets is a bit of a pain as PcLink doesn't support touch very well.
The easiest way is to have another pc with PcLink running and do the setup on that then transfer the layout files across.
Your best to set the resolution of the display on your laptop to match the tablet as otherwise positioning of elements is very hit and miss (especially with high res displays) the ThinkPad I brought has a pen which made resizing and moving elements actually doable on the tablet.
Note there is an issue with PcLink and some tablets (My acer one doesn't have this issue) where they throw a
"Access violation at address 00000000 in module 'PCLink.exe'. Read pf address 0000000." same as this thread
http://forums.linkecu.com/index.php?/topic/6144-access-violation-at-address-00000000-in-module-pclinkexe-read-pf-address-0000000/
It appears to be to do with the 3d chart display and it's very frustrating as PcLink is unrunnable as it triggers the error when ever you open PcLink and when it occurs it stops PcLink from working correctly.
You can work around this by running PcLink on a normal pc, getting rid of the default layout with a simpler one then copying the entire folder "C:\Link G4\PCLink G4+" directly to your tablet (this means the software wont try and load the default link layouts which cause the crash). Once you have done this then you can just import layout files as normal (just make sure you use non 3d gauges). Hopefully they fix this at some point (even if it's just disabling 3d charts rather then crashing).As an aside PcLink is inconsistent with how it handles limits on displays, i.e analogue vs digital are configured in different sections of the app, Once you realise this then configuring it's not to hard, however I still haven't found a way yet to get rid of the decimal point on the km/h.
PcLink has options for automatically going full screen, and auto connecting which are easily turned on through the menu.
Then in windows I have set it as a start up app so it opens automatically, and have changed the user account to go straight to desktop rather the sign in screen (this is a bit more work involving regedit, guides can be found online for both).
Realworld Performance:
You can see me using my 8 inch tablet in a race here (fully on battery).It performed flawlessly, however as you can see in the video glare is an issue with these tablets (visibility was ok from the drivers seat but could be better), so if using as your main dash then a hood/cover is something you want to look into fitting.
- Scott, TechDave and davidbek95
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Scott
I tried my phone again (Nexus 5X android 7) and still no go, i think plx have an issue (torque wont talk to ecu) with android 7, the tablet (nexus 7 2013 android 6) connected fine again and worked.
I was trying to get my phone going to eliminate the tablet from causing the lag, so i tried another way by getting an app running on windows via the Kiwi 3, it looks responsive, I think it points finger at the nexus 7 not being fast enough as certainly doesn't appear to have the same delay. (hard to tell without gauges)
The cable is only 30 - 40cm long.
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No they don't work, they all either charge or do data, but never at same time. Any that say otherwise are lying.
When you plug the ecu in the tablet usb port is running in host OTG host mode, so can supply power to the device, but you need power going the other way which requires getting the tablet to switch modes after plugging the device in, there's only one device that does that and it only works for certain brands of tablets https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OVDE0GC/ref=cm_sw_su_dp mine is an acer so not on the supported list, it's also not something i would want to put into a car.
Dell also had a cable, but it had limited support for some of their tablets and can't be brought any more.
So realistically its in the far to hard basket and i would recommend anyone going down this route avoid single usb port tablets.
However there may be another way to use a similar tablet with a Kiwi3 via bluetooth, Just have to find some decent software for the gauges...
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So i tried running PCLink on a Windows 8.1 tablet (Intel Atom Z3735G quad-core 1.3ghz, 1GB ram, 1280x 800, 32gb storage) Bloat software removed.
Appeared to run it perfectly fine! (Note: Haven't tested out for extended period.)
You can see a video of the result below
Only annoying thing is you can't charge the tablet at the same time as you have it connected to the ecu, and there is no work around for it (software or hardware) so may have to run it on battery and charge in between runs, which is a pain. If you were going to run a windows tablet I would strongly recommend getting one that has a usb port and a separate charging port.
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If you look at the CAN tab of the Runtime Values window do you have any errors present?
Scott
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I do have the following errors (IGN on, vehicle not running):
- Acknowledge Error
- Bit Recessive Error
- Error Passive
- Bus Warning
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A couple of weeks ago when I tried the kiwi3 for the first time I was unable to get my phone to connect to the Kiwi3 until I did a firmware update. Have you done this yet?
http://www.plxdevices.com/category-s/192.htm
Scott
Yep all up to date, phone is connecting to the Kiwi3 fine but wont talk to ecu, phone is running Android 7 though so that may be an issue, i know they had to update firmware for android 6.
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That looks pretty responsive.
I'm finding even just getting a connection to be very inconsistent, I wanted to try my phone out running torque and the Kiwi3 to eliminate the tablet from being to slow, but it wont connect to the ecu now, and nothing has changed in the ecu settings.
Not giving me much confidence in it.
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Ok thanks.
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What are the system requirements for PCLink?
I've tried searching the website and the help file and couldn't find anything. Also couldn't see anything when installing.
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A question for anyone who has run this setup, how did you find the performance?
I got it all working (using a PLX Kiwi3), but the lag for the RPM is to much to make it usable (would be fine for the other gauges).
I'm running 500 KBPS bit rate with generic dash 2 set to 100hz in pclink but changing it didn't seem to make much difference, I also tried another android app and had same problem.
Is anyone using a similar setup with reasonable performance? Or is it inherently to slow using OBD2 and bluetooth?
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Brilliant thanks!
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My car has just been tuned and it's come back with firmware at version 5.6.3.3185.
At the moment the latest software can't connect to the ecu because it's an older version.
When will a PcLink version be released that can connect to that version?
Cheers
Ben
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I'm looking at running a Bluetooth obd2 reader connected via can to a storm blue g4+.
I'm using torque for Android on a tablet (Nexus 7)
A couple of quick questions.
Do you need to terminate the obd2 connector, or will the Bluetooth device be enough?
What protocol are people using for torque? Link ecu says ISO 15764-4 but torque only supports 15765-4.
What bit rate and baud are you using?
Do you get the device to show in the link ecu software?
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Hi, yes, no problems with this on the current release (that I'm aware of). What is happening for you?
I will see if I can document my steps then will send it through to the support email, rather then spamming this thread
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Did the fix make it into a public release? I have some weird stuff going on with the altezza base map (ecu offline) it could be just me being new to the software, but it's very similar to the issues David was having.
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Yep, narrowband will be fine wired direct to the Analog volt channel. I would recommend using a wide-band O2 sensor for tuning though, as the narrow band is only going to tell you if you are richer or leaner than stoichiometric.
I plan to take it to either NZEFI or Spec Performance for tuning so it should be fine
Thanks for the help!
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You've done a good job allocating everything. The only thing I spotted is that you don't need the TP(Sub) channel, as this is used for e-throttle only. Also, just to confirm, the wide-band O2 sensor does require an external controller.
Thanks for the feedback! Really appreciated!
I'm planning to use a narrow band sensor so should be ok.
Early 90's Honda VTEC Solenoid drive
in G4+
Posted
Probably has the answer you require.