Jump to content

E-Throttle setup problem


MartinS

Recommended Posts

Setting up my e-throttle today.  G-4 Xtreme with add on e-throttle module, Subaru EZ 36.

Everything appears to be set up correctly. FPS calibrated no problem. Start TPS calibration: calibrated TPS main and TPS sub successfully, throttle opening and closing.  After TPS sub calibration successful message, throttle plate began oscillating open and closed at approximately 4 Hz.  Program displayed "Error 16: Cannot Reach Target 98.0%".  Throttle plate continued oscillating at 4 Hz until unit shut down.  

Tried this three times, at the end of calibration, oscillation begins and doesn't stop until power cut.

Martin 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Adam!  I'll load it up in the morning and see what happens.  

Side question: I've downloaded a couple of tuning files you put me on to for someone who tuned an EZ36 with a G4+. The files come as .pclr rather than .pcl which my version of PC Link saves the files as.  Is there a way to translate or will my program recognize them?  Don't want to actually use them, just want to have a look at the settings and tables to guide my tune.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is this reparable: during the e-throttle issues in this thread, I was chasing a couple of apparently minor 5V supply issues.  Error code came up saying problem with 5V supply.  When measured at all my 5V sensors however, it was reading 4.9V  and, as noted, I was able to calibrate my FPS. I also did an injector test which was successful.  This morning, I measured again and was getting 12V at the 5V sensors.  

I started my computer and was unable to connect to the ECU.  Rebooted the computer, no change.  When tested, I had 12V at pin 5 (centre top row) both A and B plugs.  Disconnecting the ECU from the engine and testing all the pins with the ECU on, I measured 12V at every pin except 6V at Inj 2, and 0V at Ign 6, Inj 5, Aux 1, Aux 2, Dig 2, and Sensor Grnd (although, at one point I did get 12V through the sensor Grnd).  The ECU grounds all showed 12V.

This result did not change when all the external power supplies where shut down (Ign, VVT, Fuel Pump Relay, E-Throttle, and Engine acc functions like purge valve and cam sensors) although the only commonality these had was that they went through the main socket to the engine. My testing was all done with that socket disconnected from the engine. 

Is this a catastrophic failure of the ECU?  Is there some sort of re-set I can do?  Or am I missing something obvious which can be corrected? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MartinS said:

The ECU grounds all showed 12V.

With nothing grounded nothing is going to work.  

A more correct test would be to power up the ecu on the bench, with only two wires connected, 12V connected to the A5 pin and ground connected to A34.  Then confirm your laptop connects and your 5V output is outputting 5V.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adam,

Tested unit, no issues. Went through grounds: the engine ground strap (will be two ultimately) I was convinced I'd tightened...I hadn't.  Tightened it and everything working well. Must have been gradually losing continuity; I've been chasing gremlins for a few days and not finding them. I never think of the obvious...

Anyway, thanks Adam, the changes you made to my base map have the e-throttle working as it should.  Got back on track today after fixing the ground and putting everything back together I'd torn apart chasing the weirdness caused by the ground problem, tested injectors again, tested ignition, calibrated all the sensors; getting very close to first start!  Thanks for your support!  

Martin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/26/2021 at 2:27 AM, Adamw said:

You will have to download the G4+ version of PC Link to view the PCLR file.  When you have both open side by side you can copy settings across as well as export/import whole tables between the two.

Downloaded PC Link for G4+.  When I try to open the files you gave the links for, I get a message which says something to the effect the files are encrypted to a specific ECU and can only be opened when that ecu is open.  Any workaround for this? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are the files.  

Just moving things forward and when cranking to check triggers, I've accumulated 17 crank trigger errors.  Maybe a little over a minute cranking in several shorter and one longer burst which mostly were to try and figure out the error source.  Can't find anything.  Checked and appears to be wired correctly with a good signal.  Should I ignore these for now?

My biggest problem is I have no tuner near me.  However, I have installed and tuned an Electromotive system in a Porsche 928 successfully.  Is there a paper or article which discusses the process and/or general principles of tuning with PC Link? With the change in terminology from Electromotive and the significant increase in capability and thus complexity, I'm a little lost at sea and would benefit from some background. 

Cheers and thanks,

Martin

 

1649330109_EZ36DBWbasicsetup.pcl 1836059536_ZachsEZ36-boostedtuning.pclr

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pclr file opens ok for me.  Are you using the G4+ PC Link (black icon on desktop) to open it?  

The trigger errors may not be relevant but would need to see a log of it cranking.  Are you getting stable RPM showing when cranking?  Have you checked spark timing is in the ball park?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, tried opening the files again, now one says ECU not compatible with software (?earlier version), other two now open.  Not sure how that works.

Anyway, RPM relatively stable with cranking so I think I'll ignore the 'crank errors' for now.  In the process of spark timing testing. Road block is I didn't check when I could easily have solved it and there are no timing marks on my crank pulley (eye roll emoji) so I will be finding TDC tomorrow with a dowel down #1 cylinder and marking the pulley.  Plus I don't have a timing light compatible with coil-on-plug ignition.  Adapter/extension arriving tomorrow from Amazon so should be able to check.  Should have answer by end of day.

I've opened both files I have access to of the ones you linked me to and they have different injector dead time tables. The injector setup is quite different in the G4+ program between the two files.  In the setup window both these tuning files appear to have the same injector I have with the same flow rate (which I can't enter in PC Link G4) but each has a different dead time table which are different from my default dead time table.  I tried to enter one of them and it says 'out of range'. The other I can enter but it means changing the table dramatically from the 'custom' choice PC Link for G4 comes up with. 

This raises the question: how do I ensure I have the correct injector entered?  I've looked online for some specifications on my engine's injectors and can only come up with 336cc/min as flow at ?45 psi fuel pres.  None of the choices in PC Link match this output.  So, I choose 'custom' but it appears to have no way for me to specify injector specs and comes up with a dead time table I am unable to verify.  How do I solve this?  I can only thing it vital the program has the correct injector specs entered but I cannot see how to do this.  The choices in PC Link for the non-custom selection are all Bosch and Siemens and the lowest flow injector is double my Denso injectors.   

Is there a web site which provides injector SPECs? How do I enter them into PC Link?  A bit confusing...

1 minute ago, MartinS said:

Ok, tried opening the files again, now one says ECU not compatible with software (?earlier version), other two now open.  Not sure how that works.

Anyway, RPM relatively stable with cranking so I think I'll ignore the 'crank errors' for now.  In the process of spark timing testing. Road block is I didn't check when I could easily have solved it and there are no timing marks on my crank pulley (eye roll emoji) so I will be finding TDC tomorrow with a dowel down #1 cylinder and marking the pulley.  Plus I don't have a timing light compatible with coil-on-plug ignition.  Adapter/extension arriving tomorrow from Amazon so should be able to check.  Should have answer by end of day.

I've opened both files I have access to of the ones you linked me to and they have different injector dead time tables. The injector setup is quite different in the G4+ program between the two files.  In the setup window both these tuning files appear to have the same injector I have with the same flow rate (which I can't enter in PC Link G4) but each has a different dead time table which are different from my default dead time table.  I tried to enter one of them and it says 'out of range'. The other I can enter but it means changing the table dramatically from the 'custom' choice PC Link for G4 comes up with. 

This raises the question: how do I ensure I have the correct injector entered?  I've looked online for some specifications on my engine's injectors and can only come up with 336cc/min as flow at ?45 psi fuel pres.  None of the choices in PC Link match this output.  So, I choose 'custom' but it appears to have no way for me to specify injector specs and comes up with a dead time table I am unable to verify.  How do I solve this?  I can only think it vital the program has the correct injector specs entered but I cannot see how to do this.  The choices in PC Link for the non-custom selection are all Bosch and Siemens and the lowest flow injector is double my Denso injectors.   

Is there a web site which provides injector SPECs? How do I enter them into PC Link?  A bit confusing...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you dont have known injector dead times then you will just have to make assumptions and do some practical tests when it is running.  I wouldnt bother using other peoples values as they have likely just guessed also.  If you have some value around 0.9ms at 14V you will be in the ballpark close enough to run.  The is no injector flow rate setting as it is not a VE based fuel equation.  You use the master fuel value to scale up or down the basic fuel delivery.  Typically on an engine with small injectors and an alternator the deadtimes are not that critical and will not have much influence on how it runs.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, I'm thinking along the VE based lines still from tuning an Electromotive system hence my confusion and lack of understanding about tuning with PC Link.  Could you briefly describe how PC Link does the fuel calculations then?  If there is no VE based slope and intercept for the fuel curve, how should I be thinking about this?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Master fuel is the injector pulse width at 100kpa with a fuel table number of 100%.  If open loop table is turned on the the lambda target is taken into account as well.

So, injector PW = fuel table % x MAP/100 x lambda target x master.  Many other old ecu's from this era with a PW based calculation didnt take MAP and lambda target into account so with the G4 calculation you will end up with a fuel table shape that very much looks like a VE curve - just the numbers may not be relevant.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Fuel table %", is the number that is in the current operating cell in the fuel table.  Can be anything from 0-100%.  You can put whatever you like on the Axes of the fuel table, but for an engine with a single throttle and stable manifold vacuum the general recommendation would be RPM Vs MGP or RPM Vs MAP.  MGP gives you better compensation over altitude changes.  

Target lambda is actually called "Target AFR" in the G4 sorry.  It is explained below.

image.png.1cad60d2de81a950a42b9fa5e86d472e.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, making even more sense.  Thanks for the explanation.

Ready to do my timing check today.  Waiting for a lead extension so I can use my timing light.  I'm pretty sure it's close though, all the numbers look correct for the engine and I did replace the timing chain tensioner so know the engine is in spec from a timing point of view. 

Did try to start it.  It did but ran quite rough not running well at all. Tried adjusting the master fuel.  Ended up running best at 0.8ms but very rough and only for about 30-45 sec before stalling. Timing check needed even more now.

One odd glitch I've come across: I can calibrate the throttle plate and foot pedal.  Both work well. In setup mode, when pressing the pedal the throttle works correctly and everything looks fine.  Switching it to 'ON' mode and it goes dead.  Then I get an error saying the FPS leads are grounded.  Is this a wiring issue or am I missing something in the setup?  I've gone through both and everything looks fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...