FC RX-7 Series 4: Initial Startup Failure

[HaveYouSeenAWizardSleep]

Been trying to scratch my head around this one...before I go into details on the issue I'll give some context to this specific car:

 

Series 4 Turbo II

Link Monsoon G4X

Street Port

GM Temp Sensors

LS Ignition Coils

FD TPS and UIM

Turbonetics T60 .96 AR (8psi Waste-gate spring)

44mm External Wastegate

No IAC

AEM Wideband

Electronic Boost Controlle

Ford Taurus Electric Fans (2 speed)

550cc Primaries (Bosch #0280158117)

2200cc Secondaries (Bosch #0280158821)

 

Note the Injector sizes and part numbers as that is quite relevant, this car was running on an old Microtech ECU prior we decided to throw it in the trash as it was problematic and was locked in that hands of a questionable tuner. Typically I use the Modeled Fuel Equation on rotary cars as it seems to be usually on point, giving me little to no issues at all. This specific car was timed correctly, wired properly, etc. For some odd reason, when trying to time the engine with the spark plug wire attached to the spark plug the light was inoperable giving zero feedback but when removing the plug wire from the spark plug the light worked just fine. I tried to source dead-time/lag data through various sources, set the arming threshold to 0.2 (lowest value, I find I have the best luck with that value @ 500rpm range), define the fuel pressure and primary injector size (550cc/min @ 300kPA) alongside with the staged injection ratio value (x4.0). I seem to have zero luck getting this engine to turn over and fire at all. I'm leaning towards the thought of it being an injector issue and can't seem to wrap my head around this issue, numerous de-flooding's were done, but zero luck. The trigger scope checks out just fine too. I've even tried to disabled accel enrichment to avoid any weird fluctuations with injector PW. I have provided some files pertaining to the issues including a cranking log and the tune file. Thank you.

 

Basemap.pclx fcb_cranking_log.llgx

[Adamw]

Most of the basics look ok.  BAP is reading 0 so that means you are working in the wrong cell in the fuel table, but it ios not going to make a lot of difference in this case.   Go to >analog inputs>BAP and set that to internal.  

The "no flash" on the timing light sounds suspicious.  To confirm if it is a fuel or spark issue, I would turn off fuel in the ecu, and give it a squirt of starter fluid while cranking.  If you get a cough or signs of life with starter fluid then you can focus on why is fuel missing.  If you still get no signs of life then you can look at spark or timing closer.

[HaveYouSeenAWizardSleep]

Update: Ended up getting the car running with some minor changes in the tune. As Adam had mentioned I had the internal BAP disabled (that was intentional), we swapped in new BUR9EQs all around, and most importantly I changed the Staged Injection "Sec/Pri Ratio" which was important as I misunderstood the way that value was calculated. The Link docs do a great job at explaining how to properly use this with the Modeled fuel equation. Another thing to note is that we swapped the primaries from 550cc Injectors to ID1050X Injectors just for the sake of having consistent lag/pw data to reference for peace of mind.

 

As you can see I defined the primary injector size under the "Injector Setup" Page then afterwards I calculated the Secondary Flow Ratio as so:

 

A.) Primary Injector Size: 1065cc

B.) Secondary Injector Size: 2200cc

Ratio = (B * 2) / (A * 4) = 1.032

 

As you can see I made the mistake of making this calculation based off of a multiple value in relation to the primary size (i-e: 1065x = 2200, value of x)

 

Anyways I hope this helps anybody experiencing similar issues.

 

 

Running.pclx

[Adamw]

No that is wrong.  

You have 2 x 1065cc primary = 2130cc total primary flow.  You have 2 x 2200cc secondary = 4400cc total secondary flow.

Sec/Pri flow ratio is 4400/2130 = 2.065

And that wont make a difference for start up anyhow - it will only make a difference once the secondaries start to come in at higher load.  

 

Sorry for comment above, may be wrong if you are now saying you have 4 primaries and 2 secondary injectors.  I was assuming 2 of each.  FC's only have 2 of each from what I remember.

 

You also should do the practical test below to confirm the sec/pri flow ratio once running ok since it is unlikely the quoted generic flow numbers are accurate.  

1. Set the Sec PW lockout much lower - say 0.5ms.
2. Set the whole staging table to 0% - so all fuel is injected by the primary injectors.
3. Hold the engine steady at medium load/medium speed - say 3000RPM, half throttle for example.  Easier on the dyno but you can also do it on a hill or whatever if you have a driver.  Note what lambda is reading (or log and look later), while still holding at same speed/load, select the whole staging table and change it all to 100%.  It is now running only on secondary injectors.  If sec/pri flow ratio is correct, then lambda wont change when you swap between pri to sec injectors.
4. If lambda goes richer when you change to 100% secondary then your sec/pri flow ratio is too small.  Make it larger and do the test again.  

 

 

[HaveYouSeenAWizardSleep]

6 hours ago, Adamw said:

No that is wrong.  

You have 2 x 1065cc primary = 2130cc total primary flow.  You have 2 x 2200cc secondary = 4400cc total secondary flow.

Sec/Pri flow ratio is 4400/2130 = 2.065

And that wont make a difference for start up anyhow - it will only make a difference once the secondaries start to come in at higher load.  

 

Sorry for comment above, may be wrong if you are now saying you have 4 primaries and 2 secondary injectors.  I was assuming 2 of each.  FC's only have 2 of each from what I remember.

 

You also should do the practical test below to confirm the sec/pri flow ratio once running ok since it is unlikely the quoted generic flow numbers are accurate.  

1. Set the Sec PW lockout much lower - say 0.5ms.
2. Set the whole staging table to 0% - so all fuel is injected by the primary injectors.
3. Hold the engine steady at medium load/medium speed - say 3000RPM, half throttle for example.  Easier on the dyno but you can also do it on a hill or whatever if you have a driver.  Note what lambda is reading (or log and look later), while still holding at same speed/load, select the whole staging table and change it all to 100%.  It is now running only on secondary injectors.  If sec/pri flow ratio is correct, then lambda wont change when you swap between pri to sec injectors.
4. If lambda goes richer when you change to 100% secondary then your sec/pri flow ratio is too small.  Make it larger and do the test again.  

 

 

That’s interesting as when I was cranking under the runtime menu it said that Injectors 3 and 4 were active while cranking even with the staged table zero’d out that’s why I was concerned. And yes it’s a stock configuration so instead of a multiple of 4 it should be 2, so I’ll have to change that value later.