link g4+ atom 2 16v 4age with itbs start up map required

[ashley]

I am looking for a start up map for the following set up if possible.

16v 4age big port with small port adapter to itbs with TPS

pink top low impedance injectors either 200cc or 290cc [sorry not sure which]

MAP sensor

24-1 distributor run buy link ignitor to single coil

also need to know how to set the timing for this set up before starting as I am having trouble with getting it right. 

Also I can only seem to be able to open PCLR files into pc link so would need it in that format.

Thanks in advance for any help

 

 

[Adamw]

Map attached for similar engine.  

What trouble are you having with setting the base timing?

G4+ Atom 4AGE 16V Stock NA.pclr

[ashley]

Thank you @Adamw got the timing sorted now, I'll update you when I've tried a few things with this map. I'm using 200cc pink top injectors and looking for the dead times to check what I have. It's my father inlaws car and I'm trying to get it all going for him. Just realised it doesn't have an idle control valve so no air was getting into the engine, learning as I go and god it's fun

@Adamw just to check I'm right on the timing this is what I've done so far.

Set front pulley to 20 degrees btdc on compression stroke

Set lock timing in PC link to 20 degrees

Adjusted offset till front pulley lines up at 20 degrees with timing light. This was about an 8 degree offset.

Is 20 degrees btdc to much?

Thanks again.

[Adamw]

16 minutes ago, ashley said:

Set front pulley to 20 degrees btdc on compression stroke

Set lock timing in PC link to 20 degrees

Adjusted offset till front pulley lines up at 20 degrees with timing light. This was about an 8 degree offset.

Is 20 degrees btdc to much?

That sounds correct.  The value you use for setting the base timing doesnt matter - all you are doing is making sure the engine/timing light shows the same timing as what the ecu thinks it is providing.  So, if you set "lock timing to" to 20BTDC and the timing light shows 20BTDC then it is correct.  Once you close the set base timing screen, the ecu will provide whatever advance is commanded in the map - that may be the main ign table or the idle ign table.

[ashley]

Awesome I'll set up the map you sent with my inputs and see how I go

[ashley]

@Adamw okay, tonight got close but not quite. One thing I didn't tell you is that this set up doesn't have an idle control valve but does have the 4 top tubes. Initially I had them blocked off before I realised it needed some air to start. I've taken the rubber bungs off and left them open for now and it's getting close to starting every now and then. Any ideas ?

4 minutes ago, ashley said:

@Adamw okay, tonight got close but not quite. One thing I didn't tell you is that this set up doesn't have an idle control valve but does have the 4 top tubes. Initially I had them blocked off before I realised it needed some air to start. I've taken the rubber bungs off and left them open for now and it's getting close to starting every now and then. Any ideas ? Also I did try adjusting the itbs so they were cracked open but this seemed to cause the engine to turn over very slow if not at all.

 

[DerekAE86]

12 hours ago, ashley said:

@Adamw okay, tonight got close but not quite. One thing I didn't tell you is that this set up doesn't have an idle control valve but does have the 4 top tubes. Initially I had them blocked off before I realised it needed some air to start. I've taken the rubber bungs off and left them open for now and it's getting close to starting every now and then. Any ideas ?

With the ITB/Quad Throttle setups without an Idle Valve you'll have to adjust the throttle stop to keep the butterflies slightly open so they can bypass air.

It's a very fiddly process to really dial in because you'll have to balance this between the throttle stop adjustment and the air bypass screw adjustment (the screw that sits on the mating face for the trumpet).

Honestly I would recommend just getting an Idle Valve if you have enough outputs to run one. It will make the entire process much nicer.

Also if you haven't got the engine running yet I would suggest re-checking your timing offset etc once you get the car to a point it will idle.

[Adamw]

You can always give it more air with your foot if you think there is a lack of air flow...

Do us a log of a start attempt.  You can try giving it more fuel by increasing the master fuel also.  

[ashley]

8 minutes ago, Adamw said:

You can always give it more air with your foot if you think there is a lack of air flow...

Do us a log of a start attempt.  You can try giving it more fuel by increasing the master fuel also.  

When I open the itbs a little bit the cranking speed drops off and the engine will stop turning. I did strip the starter and clean it out because it gets to hot to touch which I guess is another issue. I've done the timing again to 20btdc and set to 10deg in ecu and adjusted with timing light to that so that should be fine. 

[ashley]

wont start.llg

see what you think of this, will be interesting to see what I have done wrong

3 hours ago, Adamw said:

You can always give it more air with your foot if you think there is a lack of air flow...

Do us a log of a start attempt.  You can try giving it more fuel by increasing the master fuel also.  

 

[Adamw]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:13 PM, ashley said:

When I open the itbs a little bit the cranking speed drops off and the engine will stop turning.

The only logic I can put to that comment is your timing is wrong so it is "kicking back".  

 

On 9/20/2023 at 3:13 PM, ashley said:

I've done the timing again to 20btdc and set to 10deg in ecu and adjusted with timing light to that so that should be fine. 

This doesnt sound correct, can you explain in more detail what you are observing?  

[ashley]

@Adamw I have taken the bungs off the old idle control tubes and left them open for now and now the cranking doesn't slow down.

This is my timing setup.

Front timing mark is at 20deg btdc

Setup rotor arm on dizzy over number one post on cap

Then set lock timing in PC link to 10deg

Adjust offset till timing light reads 10deg.

Did you get time to read the start up log file I sent ?

 

[DerekAE86]

22 minutes ago, ashley said:

Adjust offset till timing light reads 10deg.

You are cranking the engine over while doing this, yes?

[ashley]

@DerekAE86 I check timing while cranking then stop, then I put an adjustment into the pc link software offset box then check again. I go through this until I get a figure that matches the lock timing figure in PC link. 

 

[Adamw]

5 hours ago, ashley said:

Did you get time to read the start up log file I sent ?

Yes, all looks ok in the log.  Possibly not enough fuel as I mentioned earlier.  Did you try increasing master fuel?

But the comment that still raises questions for me is "When I open the itbs a little bit the cranking speed drops off and the engine will stop turning".  I can imagine if the throttles were totally sealed shut so there was very little airflow, then opening the throttle would increase cyl pressure and slow cranking down a little, but it is not usually significant and it certainly should stop the engine turning.  What do you mean by "slow down" - is it sudden/abrupt pulses like a "kickback", or is it generally just cranking slower anytime the throttle is opened?

[ashley]

General cranking. Was better last night with a full charged new battery. No didn't seem to be kick back just very slow cranking.

Okay next thing is how do I change master fuel and what do I change it to. 

Thanks again guys, I'm learning enough now to be dangerous.

[Adamw]

Try it at say 25ms.

Or to rule out fuel completely you can give it a spray of starter fluid, if it fires with that then that confirms your issue is fuel, if it still doest fire then that means the issue is spark or timing.

[ashley]

@Adamw and @DerekAE86 let me start by saying you guys are awesome and a wealth of information, thank you so much for your help. Well she finally started today and actually runs like a dream, she will still needs a bit of a tune but starts with a flick of the key. Now the funny thing is that all I had to do is put new spark plugs in and away she went, I guess I should have started at the start instead of the end and working backwards, thanks again guys you rock !!!!!!