Modelled fueling starnge issues

[Gctech]

Hello Guys

So the problem is as follows PnP Link K20 running 1400cc injectors , when I input the data on all injector setup tables flow , offset , low ipw etc, I can not get the vehicle to idle with proper lambda very lean, even if I max out VE table wont do it, only way I can get to fuel is by decreasing injector flow to 300cc.

I contact US support since im a dealer and Scot and Jose took a look and they can not pin point as what the cause could be, figure i'll post the issue and file here hopefully is something simple I overlooked,

All link ecus we tune are on Modelled never had a similar issue.

Thanks

Turbo 1400cc Fuel1 injectors psr 3582 v1.01.pclx

[Vaughan]

Attach a log of it idling. Does it sound like it idles properly or does it sound like it is way too lean (trying to rule out incorrect lambda reading due to an exhaust leak or other issue)

Quick look at your tune shows engine capacity set to 2.4l, injector flow set to 300 cc/min at 300kPa.

You also have values in the warmup enrichment table and IAT fuel trim tables when these should both be covered by the charge temperature.

I assume it has regular gasoline in it? not Ethanol of some form?

Your Fuel table is setup with values that look like they are for a traditional tune not a modelled, would expect 60-80% at idle not 20%.

[Gctech]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:16 PM, Vaughan said:

Attach a log of it idling. Does it sound like it idles properly or does it sound like it is way too lean (trying to rule out incorrect lambda reading due to an exhaust leak or other issue)

Quick look at your tune shows engine capacity set to 2.4l, injector flow set to 300 cc/min at 300kPa.

You also have values in the warmup enrichment table and IAT fuel trim tables when these should both be covered by the charge temperature.

I assume it has regular gasoline in it? not Ethanol of some form?

Your Fuel table is setup with values that look like they are for a traditional tune not a modelled, would expect 60-80% at idle not 20%.

just have some time to get back on this , had some transmission issues anyway I put her on the dyno here are the new generated  calibration and data log

dyno WG spring pressure.llgx Turbo 1400cc Fuel1 injectors psr 3582 v1.02.pclx

[Adamw]

There are a few issues in your map but I dont think any would be significant enough to explain your need for 400% longer injector PW than expected.  

1. Your fuel press sensor calibration is wrong "7 Bar" is a MAP sensor cal. 
2. Your deadtime table has fuel pressure on the Y axis, it should be differential fuel pressure.
3. IAT trim table should be off.
4. 4D fuel table should be off.

Does the MAP sensor read the same as BAP with the engine off?  Most G4X plug-ins have a 7Bar MAP sensor but yours is set to 4Bar. 

What is the resistance of the injector?  What brand is the injector?

 

 

[Gctech]

9 hours ago, Adamw said:

There are a few issues in your map but I dont think any would be significant enough to explain your need for 400% longer injector PW than expected.  

1. Your fuel press sensor calibration is wrong "7 Bar" is a MAP sensor ca. i'll correct and define it
2. Your deadtime table has fuel pressure on the Y axis, it should be differential fuel pressure. will change it and test
3. IAT trim table should be off. was not aware but even so there was very little correction only at specific areas
4. 4D fuel table should be off. i use 4d to compensate fuel for high cam vtec

Does the MAP sensor read the same as BAP with the engine off?  Most G4X plug-ins have a 7Bar MAP sensor but yours is set to 4Bar. 

im using 4 bar none of the honda PnP have 7 bar internal option

What is the resistance of the injector?  What brand is the injector?

12ohm high impedance brand is fuel1 local trusted injector shop which uses bosch motorsports cores never had an issue with their injectors ever  the data is always on spot

 

 

[Gctech]

9 hours ago, Adamw said:

There are a few issues in your map but I dont think any would be significant enough to explain your need for 400% longer injector PW than expected.  

1. Your fuel press sensor calibration is wrong "7 Bar" is a MAP sensor cal. 
2. Your deadtime table has fuel pressure on the Y axis, it should be differential fuel pressure.
3. IAT trim table should be off.
4. 4D fuel table should be off.

Does the MAP sensor read the same as BAP with the engine off?  Most G4X plug-ins have a 7Bar MAP sensor but yours is set to 4Bar. 

What is the resistance of the injector?  What brand is the injector?

 

 

Here is Calibration and datalog with data changed as suggested, idle 1-5 gear cruise and wot pull on 5th notice VE number are higher I set them that way to see how much I need to increase VE to properly set flow, now it sits at 1100cc. the part that does not quite make sense to me is idling at 70-80 VE numbers when mostly i am used to see anything from 40-60 max.

Does VE actually represent the volumetric efficiency in terms of percentage or this is an arbitrary number that should now be paid attention  to as long fueling is on target?

If I put data to 1400cc I will need to bump VE close to 150 of which is the maximum number that is a red flag in my books

Turbo 1400cc Fuel1 injectors psr 3582 v1.04.pclx

link for data log could not attached it

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x8k91pqec2prdwhle2pqv/Test-with-iat-corr-off-deat-time-axis-fixed-fp-calibration.llgx?rlkey=nr6qaddf8w32g2ean9zbfgpsu&dl=0

[Adamw]

On 9/24/2023 at 10:00 AM, Gctech said:

Does VE actually represent the volumetric efficiency in terms of percentage or this is an arbitrary number that should now be paid attention  to as long fueling is on target?

If I put data to 1400cc I will need to bump VE close to 150 of which is the maximum number that is a red flag in my books

The fuel table represents % volumetric efficiency.  Typical would be 50-60% at idle, 100-120% at peak torque.  70-80% at idle and 150% at WOT suggests the engine is receiving less fuel than the ecu is calculating.  

Most of your basic setup looks ok now, the injector deadtime is a bit longer than typical for an EV14 based injector, generally they are less than 1ms at 14V, but making that smaller is only going to make things worse so I dont think that is the major problem at this time.   

What fuel is being used?  What fluid is being used to test the injector flow?

[Gctech]

5 hours ago, Adamw said:

The fuel table represents % volumetric efficiency.  Typical would be 50-60% at idle, 100-120% at peak torque.  70-80% at idle and 150% at WOT suggests the engine is receiving less fuel than the ecu is calculating.  

Most of your basic setup looks ok now, the injector deadtime is a bit longer than typical for an EV14 based injector, generally they are less than 1ms at 14V, but making that smaller is only going to make things worse so I dont think that is the major problem at this time.   

What fuel is being used?  What fluid is being used to test the injector flow?

Fuel is 93oct, if im not mistaken he uses n-Heptane C7H16 fluid