Sanity check on VE table and Knock values

[Issa_dsm]

Hello all, Im looking for some advice on some things in my calibration.. Mainly my knock values and my lower than normal VE table.

The vehicle is an automatic 90 GSX 

Im mainly concerned with my knock values and am wondering if this is real knock or if its just getting noisy as boost increases. If you look at the log it rises and falls in an odd way (id assume it would steadily increase as rpms increase) but it peaks right around peak boost/ cylinder pressure and tapers off as redline increases. maybe ignition timing is too aggressive in that area and its real? im not so sure until I retest with lower ignition timing values.

My other concern is the lower values in my VE table in Modelled Multi-fuel. It hits my targets fine but i feel as though the valves should be closer to 100% if not slightly more? Maybe Im overthinking it but im not so sure. Thank you for the input!

Other then those 2 things it feels good am going to be transitioning to ethanol very soon but I wanted to get the 91 octane side of things taken care of first.

 

 

2 wot pulls and some driving.llgx2 wot pulls and some driving.llgx2 wot pulls and some driving.llgx2 wot pulls and some driving.llgx

BRANDON 1G GETTING SAFETIES SETUP AND FINALIZING 91OCT TUNE.pclx 2 wot pulls and some driving.llgx

[Adamw]

For the VE values, the main thing I see wrong is the fuel temp is reading 200°C, change the active edge setting on the ethanol sensor DI should correct that - it will mess up your fuel tune a fair bit though.  I suspect with 2000cc injectors on pump gas at low loads the injectors will be operating in the very non-linear region so VE numbers will be very wrong in the idle/cruise area, but at WOT they should start to look realistic at ~100%+.

I would change fuel system type to FP Sensor as it looks like your fuel press doesnt quite rise 1:1 with boost.  Import the charge temp approximation table below as a better starting point, and I would do the initial pump gas tune with multifuel mode off (or zero out both blend tables) so that there is no influence from the multifuel settings/fuel table 2 etc.    

For the knock it doesnt look like it is working at all.  Is this a VR4 ecu?  If so, this ecu doesnt have the knock pin connected and will need a wire link added.

Evo Charge Temperature Approximation.lte

[Issa_dsm]

Thanks adam, I have zeroed out my blend tables up until 20% ethanol content so I believe I shouldn't have any influence on fueling at this time. As for fuel temp reading I have changed the active edge from falling to rising, is that correct? Currently my VE is around 72-76% at wot but now I suspect the fuel temp change and charge temp approximation table will help with that.. IF the values are still too low would I change overall injector size to reduce overall fueling to get my WOT numbers ~100%+? or do I mess with injector deadtimes? 

 

As for the knock sensor I sent my ecu in for a knock pin to be added, its a bosch donut style knock sensor hooked up to the factory harness and then tapped to the KNOCK1 pin on my expansion harness, I suspected there being an issue only due to how quiet it is and essentially the gain is cranked. is there another way its supposed to be wired? Thanks adam.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Issa_dsm

[Adamw]

4 hours ago, Issa_dsm said:

I have zeroed out my blend tables up until 20% ethanol content so I believe I shouldn't have any influence on fueling at this time.

The fuel table ratio table isnt zeroed up to 20% in the map you attached above. 

 

4 hours ago, Issa_dsm said:

IF the values are still too low would I change overall injector size to reduce overall fueling to get my WOT numbers ~100%+? or do I mess with injector deadtimes? 

 I would probably just leave it as is unless it was completely unrealistic.  

 

4 hours ago, Issa_dsm said:

As for the knock sensor I sent my ecu in for a knock pin to be added, its a bosch donut style knock sensor hooked up to the factory harness and then tapped to the KNOCK1 pin on my expansion harness, I suspected there being an issue only due to how quiet it is and essentially the gain is cranked. is there another way its supposed to be wired?

So its a two wire sensor, you are using the factory single core for the signal, what is the other pin connected to?  And what do you mean by "knock1 pin on my expansion harness"? Is this a flying lead that Link added?  

[Adamw]

I forgot to mention your overrun fuel cut is very hyper active too, I think that wont be too nice from a drivability point of view.  I would usually have the delay at about 1.5-2s.  

[Issa_dsm]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

The fuel table ratio table isnt zeroed up to 20% in the map you attached above. 

 

The file attached isn’t updated but I have changed everything to correct that on my end, I will send an updated file 

   

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

 

So its a two wire sensor, you are using the factory single core for the signal, what is the other pin connected to?  And what do you mean by "knock1 pin on my expansion harness"? Is this a flying lead that Link added?  

The factory signal wire is attached to a flying lead harness link added, and the other side was hooked up hooked up to pin 9 but I have swapped it to knock 1 that link added for me 

the white wire from pin 9 is wired into knock 1 on this harness currently 

 

Just now, Issa_dsm said:

The file attached isn’t updated but I have changed everything to correct that on my end, I will send an updated file 

   

The factory signal wire is attached to a flying lead harness link added, and the other side was hooked up hooked up to pin 9 but I have swapped it to knock 1 that link added for me 

 

[Adamw]

Can you check pin 2 on the knock sensor does actually have continuity to ground.   The few schematics I can find suggest the original sensor grounded through the threaded body, although pin 2 looks like it should be connected to ground somewhere, it takes some vague path through multiple shields etc so its potentially become disconnected at some stage.  

  

[Issa_dsm]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

Can you check pin 2 on the knock sensor does actually have continuity to ground.   The few schematics I can find suggest the original sensor grounded through the threaded body, although pin 2 looks like it should be connected to ground somewhere, it takes some vague path through multiple shields etc so its potentially become disconnected at some stage.  

  

Yes I will check the connector and verify if I have a good ground, I will report back. 

[Issa_dsm]

6 hours ago, Adamw said:

Can you check pin 2 on the knock sensor does actually have continuity to ground.   The few schematics I can find suggest the original sensor grounded through the threaded body, although pin 2 looks like it should be connected to ground somewhere, it takes some vague path through multiple shields etc so its potentially become disconnected at some stage.  

  

I checked one of the pins and it does go to chassis ground, I checked multiple areas and it has continuity. Does polarity matter in this case? This is the sensor I’m using and the connector 

[Adamw]

1 hour ago, Issa_dsm said:

I checked one of the pins and it does go to chassis ground,

And did you check the other pin has continuity back to the ecu knock wire?

Polarity doesnt matter for most Bosch doughnut sensors including the KS4-P, but there are a few odd exceptions so it would pay to check just in case you have got something different.  The ones you need to be careful of have an internal connection between the centre metal mounting boss and one of the pins, so these are polarity sensitive.  Use a multimeter to check there is no continuity between the centre boss (or engine if still mounted) and either of the pins.  

[Issa_dsm]

20 hours ago, Adamw said:

And did you check the other pin has continuity back to the ecu knock wire?

Polarity doesnt matter for most Bosch doughnut sensors including the KS4-P, but there are a few odd exceptions so it would pay to check just in case you have got something different.  The ones you need to be careful of have an internal connection between the centre metal mounting boss and one of the pins, so these are polarity sensitive.  Use a multimeter to check there is no continuity between the centre boss (or engine if still mounted) and either of the pins.  

Yes I double checked both I have continuity on my chassis ground on one pin and continuity to my knock 1 pin from the knock sensor plug. I also checked to see if one pin is grounded but that isn’t the case. Could it be a dead/bad sensor? It’s a 4g63 so the m8 hole needed to be enlarged to 10mm but from what I’ve read on other sources that hasn’t caused issue 

[Adamw]

Can you email me a photo of the underside of the board where the wires have been added. [email protected] 

[Issa_dsm]

6 hours ago, Adamw said:

Can you email me a photo of the underside of the board where the wires have been added. [email protected] 

Yes I will remove the ecu today and get some pictures of the back for you