Anfurnyy Posted December 31, 2023 Report Share Posted December 31, 2023 Having issues with getting my car started before and after 1g dsm with vr4 PNP. Converted the car to COP using genuine r35 hitachi coils, and a harness made from Velocity Element/Brewed motorsports. I have the outputs switched to run sequential/direct fire ignition. The car has ran on this setup before, just without the 12-1 trigger but still had issues starting then. - Power for Coils is connected via relay, and fuse directly off a remote battery post as battery is relocated to rear. Using 10ga, relay is grounded to chassis, COP ground is grounded to chassis and cylinder head also. - Trigger is a 12-1, it seems to be configured correctly (I think) - Scopes seem to look fine - The Factory Trigger wheel on the Intake cam has been modified per instructions from trigger Manufacturer - Ignition Test fires coils just fine, verified with test light - Test light does NOT fire while cranking. Occasionally it will blink when i let off ignition. *Note, in the video i SAY its cranking at 500 but its only cranking at about 200rpm. *** VIDEO HERE *** - During cranking voltage drops to mid 11v. - Car has a new starter, did this with old starter also. The main issue seems to be coils ARENT firing while cranking, and will only fire as soon as i let off the ignition/cranking. it doesn't seem the ECU loses power while cranking since im able to get logs but i could be wrong. Newest Trigger scope.llg Failed start 12-1 trigger.llg Anthony Hudelson - Revision 3.4.1 12-1 trigg.pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 It looks like the ecu is happy with the trigger, it has stable dwell and no cuts so the ecu would be commanding spark and I dont see any reason for no spark. Can you pull a spark plug out and watch it while cranking to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anfurnyy Posted January 1 Author Report Share Posted January 1 8 hours ago, Adamw said: It looks like the ecu is happy with the trigger, it has stable dwell and no cuts so the ecu would be commanding spark and I dont see any reason for no spark. Can you pull a spark plug out and watch it while cranking to confirm. Adam, I tested this, this morning and verified there is no spark while cranking. However, there is right when I let off the ignition. I recorded this, if you look closely right when I let off "starting" on the ignition you can see a spark. This is cylinder #1. NO SPARK VIDEO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil brown Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Is the plug touching metal as that's the return path otherwise won't spark Do the coil packs require an ignitor separately or have they an ignitor built into to them. Did you set up the dwell times in the ecu . Dwell times 8V 5.34 10V 4.69 12V 3.93 14V 3.40 16V 3.40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Have you confirmed there is 12V present at the coil the whole time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anfurnyy Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 5 hours ago, neil brown said: Is the plug touching metal as that's the return path otherwise won't spark Do the coil packs require an ignitor separately or have they an ignitor built into to them. Did you set up the dwell times in the ecu . Dwell times 8V 5.34 10V 4.69 12V 3.93 14V 3.40 16V 3.40 During testing it was not. However, if I have the plugs pulled and set inside the coil pack without touching metal and do a spark test in the software, they spark successfully. I can't remember what my dwell is for sure but it i remember it being right in that range at 12v, these are R35 coils and as far as I've read they have an internal igniter. 2 hours ago, Adamw said: Have you confirmed there is 12V present at the coil the whole time? I tried to check this yesterday however I don't think I know how to do it. I put my positive multi-meter probe into the power and then tried the negative in both the ground and signal wires and both times they shoot to around -.02v and. I'm assuming the correct way is to put the positive in the 12v and then just ground the other probe to a good chassis ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardTuned Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 6 hours ago, Anfurnyy said: During testing it was not. However, if I have the plugs pulled and set inside the coil pack without touching metal and do a spark test in the software, they spark successfully. I can't remember what my dwell is for sure but it i remember it being right in that range at 12v, these are R35 coils and as far as I've read they have an internal igniter. I tried to check this yesterday however I don't think I know how to do it. I put my positive multi-meter probe into the power and then tried the negative in both the ground and signal wires and both times they shoot to around -.02v and. I'm assuming the correct way is to put the positive in the 12v and then just ground the other probe to a good chassis ground? When checking for spark, you need to ground the spark plug through the hex/threads to ensure a return path. As for testing power at the coil, you should have a +12v, a ground, and a trigger. If you probe +12v and chassis ground and see 12v, probe +12v and the coil harness ground. If you don't see the same voltage, troubleshoot the ground circuit. If you don't have +12v at key on during both tests, troubleshoot the ignition coil +12v run. I presume your ign coil relay is energized by the ignition switch circuit. Anfurnyy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anfurnyy Posted January 2 Author Report Share Posted January 2 I believe that we got this figured out. I didn't have the coil pack harness relay wired to a 12v switched source that had 12v when cranking as well as "Run" modes. Rewired the switched 12v to one that does and now the timing light flashes, and the car seems to want to start while cranking. I'll report back after I've got everything finalized and actually tested and verified that it actually starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardTuned Posted January 3 Report Share Posted January 3 17 hours ago, Anfurnyy said: I believe that we got this figured out. I didn't have the coil pack harness relay wired to a 12v switched source that had 12v when cranking as well as "Run" modes. Rewired the switched 12v to one that does and now the timing light flashes, and the car seems to want to start while cranking. I'll report back after I've got everything finalized and actually tested and verified that it actually starts. I'm glad we were able to get that sorted! @Adamw looking at the trigger scope, it looks to me that offset to start with should be around 75-105. The cas was used to sync timing, so its current position would truly be TDC I presume. Kiggly has the gap placed at 105* BTDC, and my understanding of the documentation is that we want the trigger offset to be the distance from the first tooth after gap to TDC signal. he was saying it was firing out the exhaust it sounded like with offset set at 265 which seems like it would make sense. obviously a timing light to sync and then +- 360 if it's not firing when it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 4 Report Share Posted January 4 There is no way to tell the offset from the trigger scope. If the missing tooth passes the sensor at 105BTDC then the trigger offset will be about -125 or 235 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anfurnyy Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 Just an update, we were able to get the car started with an offset of -95° and the car starts while cranking with the rewired 12v source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandardTuned Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 On 1/4/2024 at 3:06 PM, Adamw said: There is no way to tell the offset from the trigger scope. If the missing tooth passes the sensor at 105BTDC then the trigger offset will be about -125 or 235 Thank you for that clarification. So us ending up on -95 is certainly close enough to make sense with the CAS position being adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.