Working out trigger offset

[jonnyt80]

Not been on the car for a while so going back to basics as my wiring seems to be ok.

What is the best way in order to setup the offset for the crank trigger.

Its a 36-1 setup and the missing teeth seem to pass the sensor by around 70 degrees before TDC. Would this be a good place to start?

It will be running group fire until i can sort out the cam trigger gap which is fixed so will need to address this.

Just trying to get my head around this as there is no base available and no one seems to have fitted a link to a duratec v6

[Scott]

Hi Jonny,

If you are going to only use the 36-1 crank pattern for now then you will need to run group fire fuel and wasted spark or distributed ignition. How does he trigger gap on the cam currently look? If you could attach a TriggerScope image that would be useful.

The process for setting the trigger offset is basically this.

1. Look at your crank pulley and look at the housing around it, identify the timing mark on the housing, and where it is. A lot of engines will have a mark 10 degrees BTDC or at TDC.
2. Connect to the ECU with PCLink. Go to ECU Settings > Triggers > Calibrate and double click the little spanner beside 'Set Base Timing'.
3. Enter the value from the timing mark cover into the first field, be sure to press enter.
4. Connect up your timing light to the HT lead of cylinder one. If the engine is coil on plug ignition system then put an HT lead between the coil and the spark-plug.
5. Disable the fueling. You can do this by disconnecting the injectors, pull out the fuel pump relay, or set the fuel pump relay to off in PCLink.
6. Crank the engine, adjust the number in the 2nd field of the Base Timing window to make the mark on the crank pulley line up with the mark on the housing. You can do this by typing a number into the 2nd field followed by pressing the enter key, or you can use the 'Q' and ''A' keys. The value can be anywhere from -360 to +360. 70 degrees could be a good starting point for your setup.
7. Once the mark lines up close the set base timing window, do a store to the ECU (F4 key).
8. Re-enable the fuel. See if the engine fires up. If it does not, go back into the base timing window and change the offset by +/- 360 degrees,
9. Once you have the engine running go back into the base timing window and adjust the 3rd field so that the timing mark on the crank pulley does not move when you increase the engine speed. You want it to be nice and stable across the whole rpm range.

[jonnyt80]

Thanks scott

This engine has no timing reference on the crank pulley but have painted a mark for TDC on it and the timing housing. Also the timing wheel is within the cover so its a nightmare trying to guess.

The cam trigger sensor is fixed so i will need to come up with a solution to close the gap as its currently a bit wide for my liking but it works this way from factory.

It is setup for group fire at the minute and i have carried out ignition tests and injector tests to make sure my wiring was good.

Im at the point now of getting it ready to start so looking for the best route to take as it appears theres no info anywhere on tuning this engine via aftermarket

[Scott]

That does sound like bit of a nightmare with the crank timing mark, it certainly doesn't make the job easy!

Lately we have seen a few engines where the manufacturer has quite a large gap between the cam and the teeth. Do you know how many teeth you have on your cams? are they variable? We have a Ford trigger mode that starts up using the crank trigger only, and then once the engine is running (and producing bigger cam signals) it starts using the cam sensor to allow direct spark and sequential injection. If your trigger patterns matched you may be able to use this trigger mode.

Scott.

[jonnyt80]

Scott this sounds good

It doesnt have VVT.

Its a 3.0 v6 Duratec and the cam sensor gap is big which is probably why the signal is weak on crank. Ill need to count the teeth on the cam sprocket to confirm.

Which trigger setup is it you have

[Scott]

Hi Jonny,

The pattern is our 'Ford BA XR6 VCT' trigger mode. This mode has 4 teeth on the cam.

Scott

[jonnyt80]

Hi scott. I have managed to get the car to start today on multipoint group once id figured out my trigger offset but I will try and get it to start on sequential eventually. Problem is there is only 1 pickup on the rh ex cam so it will need to be cam pulse x1, will see if it starts with the factory sensor on the ford xr6 trigger setting if not ill need to be creative with the sensor to close the gap to boost the pickup voltage

[Scott]

Hi Jonny,

I suspect you are going to have to go with shifting the sensor closer, or finding another sensor that will generate a bigger signal for the same gap.

Scott

[jonnyt80]

I will look into it. It does seem to run and rev clean on the current setup but i know its not ideal. Fact i have it running is a bonus and something to build on.

Thanks for the help

[Filin_Dma]

I worked out trigger offset with 1.6 Ford Fiesta several days ago. I used cylinder pressure sensor and inductive sensor for spark plug cyl#1, connected to usb scop. My offset was around -75degr, so I used  285 btdc. there are waste spark and sequental injection. The cam sensor has low level arm thresh. All work well.

[PJM]

I worked out trigger offset with 1.6 Ford Fiesta several days ago. I used cylinder pressure sensor and inductive sensor for spark plug cyl#1, connected to usb scop. My offset was around -75degr, so I used  285 btdc. there are waste spark and sequental injection. The cam sensor has low level arm thresh. All work well.

Hi what cam sensor setup did you use? I am currently in the process of the same setup using a Fiesta turbo engine.

[Filin_Dma]

Hi,

Sorry for delay. I used reluctor OEM cam sensor