takayuki Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 I am using HC 96 +. The engine uses K6A crank angle sensor for Suzuki's F6A. The child's crank angle sensor uses trigger 3-2-2. Although it cranked with a trigger scope, it seems to be opposite phase. Positive phase image can not be captured. Is there someone who is familiar with the car model setting for this waveform? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 16, 2018 Report Share Posted October 16, 2018 Crank signal is the incorrect polarity and you will need to swap the wires at the sensor to change this. Do you have a CAN sensor at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 In the next firmware release there is a new triggermode called "K6A Non-VVT", this engine has a cam sensor only (no crank sensor) and appears to have a similar pattern to yours above. Can you confirm if your signal above is from the camshaft wheel or crankshaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Simon. I got the correct waveform and I will attach the photo again. Adam. Thank you for the good information. This waveform is the waveform of the camshaft. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 17, 2018 Report Share Posted October 17, 2018 Ok, attached below is a firmware file containing firmware 5.6.5.3430, copy this to your harddrive firmware folder found here: C:\Link G4\PCLink G4+\Firmware. Open up PC Link then do a firmware update on your ecu as normal and choose 5.6.5.3430. After that you will have a new trigger mode "Suzuki K6A No-VVT". Try selecting this (change trigger 1 to reluctor), leave trigger 2 set to the defaults. Let me know it that works. Firmware 5.6.5.3430.LFM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 To Adamw Thank you for providing firmware. When I tried it, I was able to check the rotation speed, the ignition and the output of the injector But, It did not lead to engine starting. I felt RPM was high at cranking. I am grateful that the situation has improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 My car is Suzuki cappuccino. The engine is F6A but it is the crank angle sensor of K6A This K6A crank angle sensor has 4-3-3 trigger.We have changed to trigger 3-2-2. Since HKS Fcon Vpro was operating properly with trigger 3-2-2, we were looking for the possibility of working on Link G4 + as well. Perhaps, this area may be a problem. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 There is a little bit of noise near the zero-crossing on your triggerscope that could potentially cause a "phantom tooth" to be seen by the ecu. Can you try changing the trigger 1 arming threshold table to match my example below. Also I suggest trying this: First save a copy of your current tune file (.pclr). Go to >ECU controls>restore to factory settings. Perform the restore. After the restore is complete, load your tune file back in. Test cranking again, to see if triggering looks ok now. From your triggerscope above it looks like it should work ok. K6A is normally a hall sensor but the ECU doesnt care - as long as the teeth are in the same location it should work. K6A expected pattern below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Unfortunately we could not start the engine. Set the threshold value to 1.0 V with the electromagnetic sensor, do not you? I returned the tune file after restore to factory settings as specified. Since RPM has decreased to about 1000, I think whether improvement is done. Does the trigger scope we are presenting have reversed waveforms? Was this waveform as it was last time, was it OK? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 18, 2018 Report Share Posted October 18, 2018 Ok, can you do another triggerscope but this time please "save as log" and attach the file here so I can take a closer look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 The trigger scope will end recording soon, but was it good with this file? Thank you. Trigger Scope Log 2018-10-19 9;56;17 am.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Since the PC log was able to record without problems, I will attach it. Log 2018-10-19 10;39;22 am.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRVE_JPN Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Looking at this waveform is strange. It is similar to the waveform of K6A, but did you use the Distributor or the processed trigger wheel? Usually the exclusive trigger pattern is It does not work unless the angle of the trigger matches. Suzuki K6A No-VV T is for the trigger pattern attached to the cam gear. It is not for Distributor. There is no problem if the angles are perfectly matched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Unfortunately the triggerscope is cut short and doesnt show a full 720 degrees. Can you attach your .pclr file also. Comparing your earlier triggerscope to our expected pattern there is some mismatch but I think it should be close enough to work and give correct RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I'm sorry to trouble you. I think whether the record of 720 degrees is made by this attachment file. Thank you ini.pclr Trigger Scope Log 2018-10-19 5;33;10 pm_.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 19, 2018 Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Ok, there is lots of electrical noise in this latest triggerscope, some of these spikes are above the arming threshold so will be seen by the ecu as extra teeth. Ideally you need to find the source of this noise (bad wiring?). But can you first try adjusting the arming threshold up to 1.5V, see if that improves the RPM reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 Because ECU was dropped during cranking, we changed to AC adapter. The noise probably seems to have changed from ECU power supply to AC adapter. I tried changing the threshold to 1.5 V or 2 V, but the RPM seems to be over 1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2018 I ordered the shield ground wire, so I will send the measurement data again when wiring. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 We attached the log again because we applied the noise countermeasure to the wiring. RPM still seems to be about 1,200. Trigger Scope Log 2018-10-21 4;02;18 pm_.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 23 hours ago, takayuki said: RPM still seems to be about 1,200. And when the ECU shows 1200RPM, what do you feel is the real RPM? The triggerscope looks quite usable now. Can you attach a photo of the trigger wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Since it is RPM at cranking, it should be about 300 RPM. If it is difficult to handle the electromagnetic sensor, should it be replaced with a Hall sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 25, 2018 Report Share Posted October 25, 2018 Sorry for the slow reply, I wanted to do some more testing with an engine simulator to confirm that this trigger mode works correctly since it is fairly new and has only been tested on one other engine that I know of. I can confirm it seems to work properly for me. Going off your last trigger scope your signal looks good and I dont see any reason why it shouldnt work. If I calculate RPM manually from your triggerscope it appears your engine is cranking at about 400RPM. Can you try this: Set the triggermode to something completely different - say mitsubishi Evo 1-6. Store. Turn ECU off & on again. Change trig mode back to K6A and reluctor. Store, then try cranking. I have seen cases in the past where after changing trigger settings they dont initialise properly, changing it to something different then back again may fix it. Can you also confirm your teeth positions are close to my angles below: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takayuki Posted October 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2018 Thank you for your busy schedule. Although I attempted the setting you instructed, unfortunately it did not change and it was about RPM 1200. And the narrower tooth angle was 15 degrees and the wider one was 25 degrees. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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