Davidv

Yes there are stopper screws on both sides of the TB. So for the FPS and also for the throttle blade angle itself. If these have been adjusted then it could cause issues. I guess a way to rule out the Ethrottle from your idle issues. Is just turn e-throttle off in the ECU. Then start the motor and see what it idles at. If the idle stays the same, then either the plate is a bit stuck open or there's still a vac leak somewhere. If your engine idles lower, then you know it's something to do with what the e-throttle plate movement is doing. I'd maybe check if the TB is closing all of the way properly. also for the ethrottle table if it's still (by default) set to 2% at "closed" maybe try set that to 0%. I've been playing around with the idle on mine, I get a ~900rpm idle with 0.1% throttle angle (and it increases from there) so if it's still set to 2% that might be contributing perhaps. Also check that your two vaccum line connections on the TB are plugged (there's one on top of the TB, and one on the bottom)

That was 98 RON / 90 MON. If you want to fit aftermarket pistons etc, then Altezza 3SGE stuff fits most of the time. So TODA, TRD, etc all make parts that can fit. rhdjapan.com has a lot of parts on it. The Altezza intake cam has an extra cap holding it to the head, so it's longer. But I think if you machine that end off you can fit Altezza aftermarket cams into the redtop motor. But you need to be mindful that Altezzas have larger buckets so the super aggressive Altezza cams may cause problems. In my opinion though it's a great package as is, you need to spend a lot of money to take it to the next step up. My car does 3500rpm at 100kph but still gets ~7l per 100km which I wouldnt be able to acheive with bigger cams etc. It's a very usable car at the ~200hp mark but you start making a lot more compromises if you fit big cams that cant use VVTI and so on. They respond awesomely to forced induction though!

Thanks David, My PID settings can now be a lot more aggressive without flutter now... The factory suggested Altezza settings work great, and the response time is well beyond what I was expecting! Looking forward to getting the rest of the wiring finished and everything finalized for some summer trackdays.

Okay solved! I had wired it incorrectly. I had a spare complete Altezza engine loomed here so traced the wire colours. One of the signal output wires was brown, Glancing at the diagram and then back at that. Initially I figured it was the earth. Rewired properly and now it's working great, no errors. So the error checking system works great.

I think I'm making some headway on this. I found a Toyota document that had the expected span for the TPS voltages at open and closed. The FPS matched this, for both signals, as did TPS main. However my TPS sub voltage was 3.5 when it should be 2-2.5 max. Seeing how I've tested 2 TPSs and then bought a brand new 3rd one, all which show faults. Points to the wiring being at fault. I picked up some 2 wire shielded cable so I'm going to yank the whole lot out and redo the TPS wiring. Strangely, from factory the FPS wires are shielded but TPS isnt. Possibly because it took a different path in the loom or something. So I'll play it safe and just use shielded for TPS as well, since I'm redoing it anyway.

Hey Brendon I found this document which might help, part way down it lists the TPS voltages you should see. If you press F12 while connected you can see runtime values, one of the screens shows you TPS voltage. Check if your TPS is near these voltages when closed and open. SXE10 Altezza 3ine control.pdf

I would half undo the screws on the TPS, and adjust it ever so slightly until the Error 16 goes away. (or switches to "TPSsub limited movement", in which case move it the other way) I wouldnt touch any of the other settings apart from calibration if they previously worked fine. It's possible that your TPS has crapped itself from some CRC or whatever getting into it though.

Argh, this has been frustrating. With a $$Brand new$$ Toyota TPS. If I adjust the TPS slightly one way for calibration, it says limited TPS/SUB movement. If I adjust the TPS slightly back the other way, it says cannot reach 98% If I find that spot in the middle and have very conservative PID settings, every once in a while it will calibrate correctly. Then I get TPS main / sub tracking error when I set it to ON and it shuts down almost immediately. this is what it's looking like on the graph, notice the spikes on TPS sub vs main. What's next to try? My battery voltage is good and the 5v supply stays rock solid at 4.98 volts. I'm guessing ripping out my TPS wiring and starting again is next up. Is it possible that the 12v signal going to the e-throttle motor is causing signal interference if bunched in with my other wiring? Should I try a shielded pair for the TPS output signals.

I cant help with your main issue, but if you want the throttle body to be less noisy when the motor isnt running, changing this setting to "Quiet throttle"

Okay thanks. This is a wire in ECU, and I've split the TPS wiring out to its individual wires and then relaid it into a loom to suit the car it's in. I didnt notice any wear/cuts/etc or any other obvious degradation of the wiring, however do you have some additional methods for testing? I should have a new TPS here tomorrow afternoon, seeing how one of them worked significantly worse than the other. If no luck with that, I'll start again from scratch with the wiring.

Hmmmm just tested again with my other TPS that I'd deemed faulty - that one doesnt even calibrate at all. It seems reasonably common that Altezzas chew through TPSs so it must just be bad luck with two faulty sensors, will grab a brand new one and report back.

Hmmm okay so further testing, and it calibrates fine but then when set to "on" always has problems. Ran some logging on it. You can see below, both of the FPS signals track each other nicely. The TPS main is working fine but the TPS sub is jumpy. If I take the TPS off and move it slowly through its range, they both track fine. But when it moves fast, TPS sub has problems. Does this sound about right for being a physical TPS fault? Just seems coincidental that 2 out of 2 of my TPSs exhibit the same symptoms. I guess it makes sense that E-throttles can wear out TPSs a lot quicker than normal cars, and faster than the FPS sensors. Probably spends 10x longer moving around than the FPS.

Your CAI will be losing you power with the standard ECU, because it upsets the MAF Sensor. This is what will be making your throttle response feel sluggish currently, because throttle response is awesome even on the standard ECU. About ~170hp at the wheels is normal for an engine that's running well. I went from 150hp to 170hp at the wheels by going from an apexi pod filter back to a standard airbox, and the car ran MUCH better at low throttle. Although that doesnt really matter now that you've got a link to run it, because you can tune it properly for whatever intake you use. And MAP sensor is a bit less fussy than the MAF. 20v throttles on a beams motor, or standard manifold? The standard intake manifold has 45mm diameter runners. With bell mouths on the end. In a fancy plenum with a big throttle body. Silvertop 20v throttles at the throttle plate are 43mm diameter. Blacktop 20v throttles at the throttle plate are 45mm diameter. buuuutttt a throttle body still has the throttle shaft blocking some cross sectional area when it's open, so it's effective area is more like this: So: (Altezza manifold) 45mm dia no throttle: 1590mm square of cross sectional area (Blacktop 4age) 45mm dia 4mm thick throttle shaft: 1410mm square of cross sectional area (88% area of standard runner) (silvertop 4age) 43mm dia 4mm thick throttle shaft: 1280mm square of cross sectional area (80% area of standard runner) You'd need a 47-48mm throttle body (if it had a 4mm shaft) to get a similar cross sectional area to a standard 45mm standard runner. The 45mm 20V throttles also taper out wider at the entrance, and then at the exit taper out to an oval shape to suit the 3 valve port. Which is a poor shape for a 2 valve port. Most beams motors that I've seen which use 20V throttles havent made much more power over a standard engine, I would assume for reasons above. I am currently putting the engine/gearbox back into my car and have been doing a big rewire. I havent had my car on the dyno yet, and I've been very conservative on ignition settings. With the factory ECU, an exhaust manifold restriction and a 7400rpm rev limit I did a 14.3 at the drags. So might be a bit qucker when I get the ignition timing dialled in a bit better... Launch control will help a lot as my car has terrible traction off the line. The weather starts getting nicer here in the next few months so hopefully I'll have a few more runs down the drag strip and see how it goes.

Okay so here's what I've found that might be useful. Firstly I've tried lots of different intakes, and non so far make more power than the factory filter box and piping/resonators. So keep it! Second of all the factory IAT sensor that's in the MAF is ATROCIOUS. So dont bother using it for your IAT because it's super slow. Get one of the BOSCH open element types. The difference in reaction time is insane. I used the MAF sensor to datalog intake cam angles to see what gives the highest mass of air into the engine at full throttle: And I'm currently running to an 8200rpm limit but realistically there's not likely much point in going above 8000 on a standard motor. Definitely benefits to going over the factory 7400 limit though.

Okay I ended up with the following settings seem to be working well for the Altezza TB: Proportional gain: 4.75 Integral gain: 0.005 Derivative gain: 35 Max clamp / min clamp 95% I started out with higher values for all of the gains, but found that I had the throttle plate fluttering after a sharp opening, and also when held steady state at 100% throttle the TPS reading (and throttle angle) was fluctuating. So I held it at 100% throttle and kept reducing derivative gain until it stopped fluttering at steady state 100% throttle. Then quickly flicking throttle open to say 30%, reduced integral gain and proportional gain until the throttle plate would stop fluttering. Since it was working with two variables I'd reduce one until it stopped fluttering then see if I could raise the other, the values above seemed to be the combination where I could go the highest on both. Based on observation: Proportional gain determines how quickly the throttle plate moves to reach the target initially. Set to a low value, and it will take a few seconds for the plate to respond to changes. (will feel laggy) Set too high, and it overshoots and needs to overcorrect and causes fluttering. Integral gain seemed to be how aggressively it tries to fine tune the angle once it's reached its target. If you snap the throttle open quickly to half way and it flutters, reduce this. Keeping in mind you want the highest values that do not cause flutter for best response, If you setup a screen on the laptop to monitor FPS main/sub and TPS main sub, you can see if the throttle plate is fluctuating compared to FPS position easily. Although sitting with the TB in front of you where you can watch it also helps. It seems to be pretty good now, good throttle response but minimal flutter. I've only tested with the engine not running so far though. I'll see how it goes when I've finished all of my wiring. So far though I'm pretty happy with how it's working! Looking forward to having the car be a bit more drivable at low throttle angles.

Generally speaking (newer vehicle knock sensors seem to be fussier) the Toyota knock sensors are filtered inside the sensor, as in, they only pick up a particular frequency. Which is great except for if knock starts happening outside of that narrow frequency range (Which can happen if bore or stroke changes, or you've got a knock sensor from the wrong motor) The bosch ones are wideband knock sensors that pick up everything, then you can use the ECU to filter to the correct frequency of knock. From previous experiences (troubleshooting a factory ECU'd car with the wrong knock sensor) I'd be inclined to use the bosch ones all the time for aftermarket ECUs where it's configurable.

Hi KD, I'm running a redtop engine with g4+ Xtreme. Are you wanting information regarding the physical wiring setup, or what values to put in tables etc? I can probably give you a good head start with what I've found to be the best values for VVTI timing etc.

Okay so I had another look at this, the polarity of the motor looked to be the wrong way around.... Which is what was causing the flutter / throttle slamming. Must have been looking at the wiring diagram backwards. After that though, it took a bit of fiddling with the TPS angle to get it to calibrate. If I repeat the calibrations they seem to work about 30% of the time. I think it might relate to PID settings, it seems to work most successfully with 30% and -30% clamp and all of the gain settings reduced.

I just finished wiring mine up and have done some testing. Initially in my datalogs it would show that the TPS main was smooth but the TPS sub quite jumpy. Switched to a spare TPS and now it's fine, both signals very smooth. However it now gives Error 16, target 98% cant be reached. FPS calibration works fine, TPS calibration works fine, the TPS vs FPS calibration works fine, then at the last hurdle it trips over. The throttle slams open and shut over and over for the last little bit of calibration. What does this error code mean exactly? That it thinks the throttle cant open 98% of the way? If I turn on the datalogging, the FPS sub/main and TPS sub/main signals move smoothly through the range in proportion with each other. So it doesnt appear to be an issue with the sensors that I can see. I'm using the proportion gain etc settings as per the manual's settings for Toyota throttle bodies. EDIT: I see that the basemap for the Altezza has some different settings to what I'm using, I'll try these again in the morning.

Ahh that's great, thanks!

Okay so there are 4 wires coming out of both the TPS and the FPS, so I dont understand exactly how to wire it as MAIN and SUB. One pin on each is redundant, because it's the "throttle is closed" switch. However the other three.... Do I wire one to the 5V sensor supply, and then wire one to SUB and one to MAIN? Or something else?

Ahhh thanks Simon! They look perfect for the job.

Hi, Not strictly an ECU related question, but I would like to have a tinker with traction control etc which requires a non driven wheel speed signal. My car is from 1983 so it does not have any factory wheel speed sensors, and I've fitted bigger brakes to the front of it which take up just about every iota of space in between the wheel and the hub/strut. So I dont really have any room for retrofitting an ABS ring type setup from another car. I was wondering if anyone's had any creative solutions for a similar problem? What sort of resolution on wheel speed do you need, would something like 4 pickups per wheel rotation be enough? Or 10/20/30/etc? More the merrier? Has anyone tried something like reading a signal from the edge of a wheel? Maybe an optical sensor or something... Although dust etc would cause problems. Any suggestions appreciated!

Hi, I'm looking to setup E-throttle shortly with an Altezza 3SGE throttle body. On a G4+ Xtreme Red. Question one: Looking through the documentation, it says that it requires TPS main and sub, FPS main and sub wired to 4 seperate inputs. Am I correct in thinking that this is just two wires each coming out of the TPS plug, and two wires coming out of the FPS plug? One which gains voltage one which drops voltage as it sweeps through it's range? Question two: A lot of the documentation now mentions the Black edition Xtreme, and any mention of the Red seems to be gone. Which is fine, but what's the effective difference between the two, am I safe in following the pinouts/guides/etc that mention black version, for the Red? Question three: In the box with the ECU there was a little booklet which had a pinout of the plugs, (I can find this in the online help in PClink) but also on another page a list to write down what you were planning to use all of the inputs/outputs for. I found this useful, is there a copy online somewhere so I can print out another one? Also on a bit of a tangent, but what are peoples experiences with e-throttle? People with Altezzas (with factory ECU) seem to moan that it feels mushy, but I'm guessing it's just because you've got no control over it's logic, and how it decides to use it for traction control etc. Which obviously isnt the case when you're running a Link! What is the response time of an E-throttle if you mash the throttle wide open, is there a noticeable latency at all? I'm mainly wanting it to make the car a little less jerky to drive at low throttle openings... But cruise control will be neat as well

Hey, I've wired in a 3 axis accellerometer to Analogue inputs 9, 10, 11. Used a Cal table with no units, as there is no 'G' unit available. But if I try approximate the voltages to Gs, because it only goes from 0 to 3, with two decimal points it doesnt have enough resolution to be effective. If I set my units at each end of calibration to be '0' and '6000' then I get lots of resolution but the numbers dont make any sense at first glance. Ideally I'd want to have my scale going from -3 to 3, with a lot more decimal places. Doable?