suddenly lean during cruising

[Luis Lopez]

Hi guys I was cruising in my 2003 Evo 8 and it had a small hiccup  but it was very quick it went lean.  Thankfully I always have my laptop recording, I'm gonna attach the log here. The time is 2:25.305. Thanks in advance for any inputs you guys may have.Log 2019-11-17 12;29;03 am.llg

[Brad Burnett]

could you please attach the corresponding .pclr file?

[Luis Lopez]

8 minutes ago, Brad Burnett said:

could you please attach the corresponding .pclr file?

You want the map as well?

current map.pclr

[Brad Burnett]

I see the "hiccup" at 2:25.  There is a battery voltage fluctuation immediately before that.  And the injector pulse width drops in that area as well.

[Luis Lopez]

What could cause this? Alternator? Or voltage regulator? Battery?

[Brad Burnett]

your fans kicked on right before the voltage dip.  

My car makes a similar hiccup if the fans kick at low rpm causing a voltage drop.

Not sure why you have 2 DI's set as AC request.  But they are opposing so its always trying to run the AC?  Compressor clutch is always engaged, or at least thats what the log shows.  Might have something to do with why its also running so cold and the fans are cycling.

[Luis Lopez]

So it’s normal?

[Brad Burnett]

Thats not what im saying at all.  you have some set up in the ac/fan area that needs addressing.  

But as far as the hiccup is concerned, a sudden voltage drop will cause similar effects.

[Luis Lopez]

I've looked for this issue as well but man is kicking my ass. I think my iacv took a shit also

[Luis Lopez]

On 11/17/2019 at 12:34 PM, Brad Burnett said:

your fans kicked on right before the voltage dip.  

My car makes a similar hiccup if the fans kick at low rpm causing a voltage drop.

Not sure why you have 2 DI's set as AC request.  But they are opposing so its always trying to run the AC?  Compressor clutch is always engaged, or at least thats what the log shows.  Might have something to do with why its also running so cold and the fans are cycling.

The ac request is like that per instructions as far I’m concerned though. If not the AC won’t work. 

[Adamw]

Your injector actual pulsewidth is only 1.2ms in that area, most injectors will be very non-linear with such a short PW.  You cant expect an engine with 2500cc injectors on petrol to cruise lean like a stock car.  You will likely need to increase the min effective PW setting to about 0.45ms and target a richer lambda during idle and cruise conditions (or lower fuel pressure) to prevent the injector operating in this region.

Are they actually ID2000's or some other brand?  Many other suppliers that sell the 2000CC CNG injector dont dynamically match them at multiple pulse widths like ID do so it could be even worse that shown below with some other brands.

Notice the pink lines I have drawn on this graph.  This shows the injector flows 40% less fuel at 1.12ms PW (15uL) than it does at 1.25ms (25uL) so it only takes a 0.1ms change in PW to turn all to custard.

 

 

 

 

[Luis Lopez]

5 hours ago, Adamw said:

Your injector actual pulsewidth is only 1.2ms in that area, most injectors will be very non-linear with such a short PW.  You cant expect an engine with 2500cc injectors on petrol to cruise lean like a stock car.  You will likely need to increase the min effective PW setting to about 0.45ms and target a richer lambda during idle and cruise conditions (or lower fuel pressure) to prevent the injector operating in this region.

Are they actually ID2000's or some other brand?  Many other suppliers that sell the 2000CC CNG injector dont dynamically match them at multiple pulse widths like ID do so it could be even worse that shown below with some other brands.

Notice the pink lines I have drawn on this graph.  This shows the injector flows 40% less fuel at 1.12ms PW (15uL) than it does at 1.25ms (25uL) so it only takes a 0.1ms change in PW to turn all to custard.

 

 

 

 

Yeah Adam they are ID2000cc and I used the table for linkecu that they provide in their website this info https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.freshdesk.com/data/helpdesk/attachments/production/4038524102/original/ID2000 - Link G4 Thunder Characterization Tables - 4 Bar.xls?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAJ2JSYZ7O3I4JO6DA%2F20191119%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20191119T114836Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=a8d5de60a68717def2b3c0221acf5a471759e541b5e7e5fb0fc59b38fd534562&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=Host&response-content-type=application%2Fvnd.ms-excel

 

so target a like a .95 lambda? And up the min PS  +.45? Ok no problem I’ll try that. Thanks Adam 

[Brad Burnett]

10 hours ago, Luis Lopez said:

The ac request is like that per instructions as far I’m concerned though. If not the AC won’t work. 

but you have 2 DI's set to ac request, DI 3 & 6.  From the log, DI3 isnt doing anything.  Id say turn DI3 to off and set engine fan 1 "on with AC" to off.  

[Luis Lopez]

Yep engine fan on with AC is set to off now, yeah I see what you’re saying. One is on level high the other level low. I honestly don’t know why lol 

[Luis Lopez]

So now the problem is with the AC on. I've done the proper procedure using link help file. But as Adam told me I think the iacv is operating outside of its range. When I see the runtime values the idle step turns orange or red so I'm assuming that means out of range. So when the AC is on it's chasing the target idle. Keep in mind I'm no tuner at all and I just took the HP Academy classes so I know very little. I'm gonna attach my last log and map. current map.pclr

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zzVj9BsMlQ7KdeDPPxvkpivV2YHDUOzt/view?usp=sharing

here is the log since I can't upload it because of the size

[Brad Burnett]

set the idle stop on the throttle body so at warm the idle is just below idle target with no idle valve operating.

[Luis Lopez]

1 hour ago, Brad Burnett said:

set the idle stop on the throttle body so at warm the idle is just below idle target with no idle valve operating.

ok I'm gonna do this now I'll let you know

[Adamw]

Your idle valve position looks fine in your log.  The red/orange colours on run times are user configurable warnings, if you havent set them up to something suitable then you can ignore them.  

I dont really see much of a problem in your log when AC turns on it seems fairly stable?  Where in the log is this "AC problem"?

Also, your injector PW is still commanding 0.3ms so you havent set the 0.45 minimum PW that I told you to do a couple of days ago.

Why are you running such large injectors and high pressure for a petrol based fuel?  2500cc is enough fuel for about 1800HP @ 85%DC?  Seems a bit optimistic if you want it to idle nice and AC to work as well...

 

 

[Luis Lopez]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

Your idle valve position looks fine in your log.  The red/orange colours on run times are user configurable warnings, if you havent set them up to something suitable then you can ignore them.  

I dont really see much of a problem in your log when AC turns on it seems fairly stable?  Where in the log is this "AC problem"?

Also, your injector PW is still commanding 0.3ms so you havent set the 0.45 minimum PW that I told you to do a couple of days ago.

Why are you running such large injectors and high pressure for a petrol based fuel?  2500cc is enough fuel for about 1800HP @ 85%DC?  Seems a bit optimistic if you want it to idle nice and AC to work as well...

 

 

The PW was my mistake I’ll fix that. The reason for the injectors and the high pressure is because yes right now the car is running 93oct but for racing it will be Ignite 114 which is ethanol on steroids the blending is with race fuel not regular gas and it demands a lot of fuel.  I still need to wire the ethanol sensor so I haven’t tuned yet for that gas but it will be. Now that injector dynamics released the new 2600cc injectors I might get those and lower the fuel pressure to 43.5psi base, but as of right now I might not even make it pass 40psi with that fuel. I’m looking at maybe 900-1000hp if the injectors allow me. Here’s a link for the ignite http://www.igniteracingfuel.com/114.html 

 Now for the ac when I’m coming to a stop the idle starts bouncing from 1000 to 2100ish up and down and I have to turn the ac off so it stops oscillating. Let me take a look and tell you the exact time it happens 

[Luis Lopez]

Adam look at 16:24.296 

[Adamw]

18 hours ago, Luis Lopez said:

Now for the ac when I’m coming to a stop the idle starts bouncing from 1000 to 2100ish up and down and I have to turn the ac off so it stops oscillating. Let me take a look and tell you the exact time it happens 

Your over-run fuel cut is turning on and off.  Set that much higher like 2000-2300RPM or turn it off all together.  

And increase your idle base position by about 20 so that closed loop is not having to correct so much.

[Luis Lopez]

6 hours ago, Adamw said:

Your over-run fuel cut is turning on and off.  Set that much higher like 2000-2300RPM or turn it off all together.  

And increase your idle base position by about 20 so that closed loop is not having to correct so much.

 20 steps? in the whole table?

[Luis Lopez]

Oh I think you mean the min clamp?