koracing Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 Customer car: 1997 Mazda Miata with 2001 VVTi engine swap. ECU: G4x Plug-in with adapter to 1997 Miata ecu pinout. Problem: Cranking the car does not reliably show RPM. Trigger tests have shown good signals, and sometimes inverted cam signals when testing via trigger scope function in a no-start situation. Cam sensor: Hall effect - VVTi 2-1 trigger pattern Crank senosr: Hall effect - 4 tooth crank Sometimes the car will fire up fine several times in a row. Other times the car won't fire up. When datalogging, or with laptop connected you can see there is no rpm signal in the non-fireup regions. Cranking in no fire up situation key to on then start, then returing the key to the ign-on position will then register a trigger error and most often the next attempt will fire up the car. The car once running never seems to have any trigger issues at all. Trouble Shooting: 1. Cam and Crank sensors have been replaced with new OEM. No change. 2. Cam and Crank sensor wiring changed to tefzel 3 conductor shielded cables direct from sensors back to ecu pins with power and ground coming from the ecu power and ground for the hall sensors. No change. 3. Different cam sensor (Littlefuse Hall Effect with Deutsch DTM 3 pin connector). No change. 4. RPM filter 1, 2, 3 - no change 5. Change to a G4+ plug-in with same adapter to 1997 Miata ecu pinout - fires every single time never has no rpm signal while cranking. Attaching links to the G4x and G4+ version of the maps - g4+ was quickly thrown together by copying tables from the G4x last night to test. G4+: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc2aeolrcpgbvqz/Mazda MX5 G4%2B Xtreme Plugin VVTI KO Plugin Base 031121.pclr?dl=0 G4x: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bs3u0v8zzhg9ggi/A_P 97Miata 01VVTi LinkG4x Plug in 001 03-11-21.pclx?dl=0 Log showing some intermittent no rpm - only way to tell cranking without trigger signals I think is the battery voltage dip during cranking.https://www.dropbox.com/s/onrkjjdty1fcyt6/PC Datalog - 2021-03-4 7%3B42%3B00 pm no cranking rpm intermittent.llgx?dl=0 I'm open to suggestions but this appears to be a G4x issue? I think we may try a different G4x to see if it makes a difference as I have another customer on a different car (miata with vvti swap) that hasn't reported any cranking signal issues with startup. Another local shop has a car that they say is doing the same thing on a Storm X wire in on a 99 Miata they have there - sometimes no RPM on first cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 Can you attach the trigger scope. Preferably one taken during no start conditions but any scope will be helpful. It is normal for the cam sensors to flip/invert in these but the trigger mode has been designed to handle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e1hqoqm6mwrhygj/TriggerScope_NewtriggerWires_03-04-21.llgx?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Ok, your crank/trigger 1 signal looks a bit weird. You have one long tooth and one short tooth, but the expected pattern is all short teeth. It looks like the rising edge should still work ok though. Let me check with engineering on Monday as the trigger 1 state in the scope suggests it isnt interpreting those teeth - it is stuck on "second tooth", but would normally cycle between count large and count small when its happy.. Your scope: Normal MX5 pattern: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 Here are three more scopes and log from this morning (log was taken while all three scope captures were performed). Datalog: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4fr2fxxmhtqewys/TriggerScopeLog.llgx?dl=0 Scope 1 no start: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z12fob8vvhu82n2/TriggerScopeLog_01_031321_NO START.llgx?dl=0 Scope 2 fires up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/avcxg1dvoxwy622/TriggerScopeLog_02_031321_Started.llgx?dl=0 Scope 3 while idling: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c8r8lmwl0ddw6zg/TriggerScopeLog_03_031321_Running.llgx?dl=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miat Posted March 13, 2021 Report Share Posted March 13, 2021 What firmware version are you running? Last couple days, I've been putting a furyX into a 2003 VVT miata. On the firmware shipped with the ECU, the "Mazda Mx5 VVTi" trigger mode did not work well, only "Mazda Mx5 OBD2" worked The latest firmware seems to work for me with the correct "Mazda Mx5 VVTi" trigger. Beware when updating firmware, there seems to be a bug with the miata VVT mode. If you have a bank 1 and bank 2 table in PClink, turn VVT off and store before upgrading. One of the updates removes bank 2 tables for miata VVT, and I had a few issues where the firmware seemed to expect 1 table but pclink still showed 2 (and was unable to store without the ECU crashing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2021 This is on the latest firmware now (6.19.60) but the problem was there on the previous firmware as well. I have the tune files available for download linked in here that would indicate what version software and firmware are being used. I'm not sure why turning off bank 2 tables would matter since there is only 1 output assigned to a VVT solenoid anyway, and that's specified for the appropriate bank. I've not heard of or experienced an issue with vvt being turned on and then upgrading firmware causing a problem. This car has been running fine since December when I installed and tuned the ecu with proper trigger settings and VVT working as it should - it just has issues getting it's first crank trigger signal. If you're having problems with the ecu crashing when storing - I am not sure that would be related to the trigger setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Beta testing a new firmware. So far has started every time without a trigger issue. I think Link fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 I have a MZR vvti motor (2006) in a ford capri . The last tune we went to one pickup on the cam about 3 years ago. so the vvti was redundant. From what I read, would I be able to replace the cam with another factory vvti and make use of this feature again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Can you explain better what you have, it doesnt really make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Hi, It is a duratec vvti motor out of Mazda MX5 (2006) same as ford 2.0 I guess. probably easier to say I would like to configure the motor back to factory now you guys have more up to date firmware. When I first started this project you didn't have suitable firmware to run the vvt. so we ground all the pickup pins off the cam so it only had 1 pin I will put the factory cam back in. But the crank pulley has a tooth taken off, It now a 34t. Do I need to change this? Is there any other motor hardware things I need to consider? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 This thread was about the NB miata that only has 4 teeth on the crank. So it sounds like your engine would be a NC - but the NC has 36-2-2-2 on the crank - so 30 teeth, not 34. The NC trigger and VVT has been supported since 2011 with the G4. So Im still confused what you actually have, why it is modified, and what the question is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Yeap its NC, Sorry new to finding my way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 So if you put it back to standard NC trigger configuration it will work. It will likely not work with a modified crank wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 thanks Adam, So the important thing is. the Mazda MX5 file plugin is a recent update to when I started this project 5-6 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Sorry not sure what you mean. We dont current make a plug-in for the NC or NB. But we have supported the engines including stock trigger and VVT since 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 back to a basic question. If I have a motor that came from a mazda mx5 NC. (It's a aluminum block the the intake on the lft hand side) it has some form of VVT the year it was made was 2007. I have ITBs on it. the cam has 6 pickup points for the sensor. and with the crank wheel once I change it back to what was on it originally (I think it is 36-2-2-2). Will the lastest firmware, software for the G4+ be able to run this motor including the vvt? Sorry I wasn't very clear in the first instance. when I started this project quite a few years ago, we could get the Linkecu to run due to being a relatively new motor config that I guess there was no demand for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 27, 2021 Report Share Posted June 27, 2021 9 hours ago, Rusty1 said: Will the lastest firmware, software for the G4+ be able to run this motor including the vvt? Yes. But as I said, the G4+ has always been able to run that engine, so its still not clear why it was changed. You are correct the crank is 36-2-2-2 and the cam has 6 teeth in a 4+2 type pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1 Posted July 5, 2021 Report Share Posted July 5, 2021 thanks for your help. It was lack of knowledge sorry. I have made more progress in the last week then I have in 7 years by doing it myself and reading the manuals Different tuners different ideas I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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