1uz engine G4 xtreme moving to G4x

[Steve Bull]

I’ve just started the process of getting my link G4X xtreme ECU to take over from my old G4 xtreme ECU. Been quite a fair bit of faffing around getting everything from one map to the other. Plus getting a hang of the new ECU it’s a fair bit different to the old one. 

Got to the point where they both are the same. But when I swapped out the old for the new the engine wouldn’t start. All the inputs and outputs were registering but the engine just would fire up. Swapped them back and it started first time.

Any ideas what I could have missed.

 

 

[Vaughan]

attach a copy of your tune and if possible a short log of you attempting to start it please.

[Adamw]

A copy of the old G4 tune will be useful too.

[Steve Bull]

Thanks, the mapping isnt finished on either, i didnt get a chance to log, but i did notice all the coils and injectors were firing. 

 

[Adamw]

Trigger offset will likely need to be near 0 in the G4X.  For the engines that have a dedicated trigger mode the offset will usually be zero in the G4X.

Also be aware you have open loop fuel table turned on in G4X but off in the G4, this wont make much difference at idle, but it will probably now run much richer under load.  

 

[Steve Bull]

So the timing is well out then. I didn’t use a timing light as I though it must be some other error as everything was the same. Does the G4x xtreme need both cam and  crank sensors inputs, I think the G4 was wired  up to take it but didn’t require both. 
 

I’ll put the trigger offset to zero, I take it that’s the one in the triggers/calibrate set base timing pop up menu.  

 

Thanks

*** just tried it and after a adjustments to the FIP controller it ran. Had the strobe light running and zero Trigger offset, with the timing locked at 10°, gave 10° on the crank timing mark.  So for the first time with this ECU all is good. I just now need to get my head right into it the  G4x.

 Thanks 

[Steve Bull]

I’m slowly going through the features on the G4X. And something I’d like to do will be the blip the throttle on the down change. Now I noticed when I was  going through the the set up menu, for gearshift control, it asked for the blip solenoid. Now if it’s none is that a default setting and the E throttle will blip, or by selecting non, nothing will happen. I was hoping this could be done with the E-throttle as I don’t want to have a separate piece of kit to do it. 

[Adamw]

If you are not using a solenoid for blip then you dont need to assign one, it will then only use the overrun downshift throttle trim you have assigned.  

Note, if it is a road car you would probably be better to do the blip with a 2nd E-throttle table, then you can command a different amount of blip depending on speed or RPM and gear.  The motorsport blip is designed for every shift to be "maximum attack" so the blip is only varied by gear, not speed or RPM. 

[Steve Bull]

Now this might show my stupidity, but if the TPS values at close throttle are higher than at open Throttle would this mean that the 5 V and earth of the wrong way round. This is all I can think that is making the E-throttle not work and throwing up the error 76. I’m sure all my settings are correct for the 1uz.

 

[Adamw]

TPS direction doesnt matter. 

Aux 9 active state should normally be high for E-throttle so try that first.  But your TPS voltages do look a bit odd so may suggest there is a wiring issue there too.  Normally on the Toyota throttles the TPS sub goes all the way to 5V.  

Note the toyota pinouts are usually drawn looking into the loom, rather than into the device so are backwards compared to most.

[Steve Bull]

Thanks for that, it’s another thing to add to the list. I think also I may have the main in the subs the wrong around on the TPS, which may cause the issue. I’ll have to check the runtime values tomorrow, Like you said the TPS, both main and sub, are miles out. As well as the Idle clamp max and min.  Do you know if all the values in the “set up notes” for the 1uz E-Throttle are correct for the G4X ECU, the P,I and D gains.

[Adamw]

11 minutes ago, Steve Bull said:

Do you know if all the values in the “set up notes” for the 1uz E-Throttle are correct for the G4X ECU, the P,I and D gains.

Will be close enough to work I would expect.  We used to have a 1UZ VVTi as one of our dyno mule engines, I cant remember if it ever had a G4X on it though.  @Vaughan Do any of you guys have a G4X map off the old 1UZ dyno engine to confirm PID?

[Vaughan]

Given that the G4+ and G4X help have the same values I don't think they've been updated. Best I can find from home for the test motor is from 6.7.11 and it had 10.12, 0.1 and 20 for P, I and D respectively, wouldn't necessarily trust that to be a good tune.

[Steve Bull]

On 9/8/2021 at 1:52 AM, Vaughan said:

Given that the G4+ and G4X help have the same values I don't think they've been updated. Best I can find from home for the test motor is from 6.7.11 and it had 10.12, 0.1 and 20 for P, I and D respectively, wouldn't necessarily trust that to be a good tune.

Thanks it’s a good starting point, I’ll see what, if any, errors they through up. I looked at the the G4 set values and there the same as the  G4+ & G4x.

*** did the new settings to the throttle  control and it seem to have worked, quite a bit of fiddling about, but putting Aux9 active status to high altered the polarity of Aux 9 and 10. The TPS now has no errors at all, the APS does occasionally get errors but it’s a lot better. I had to really cut down the idle control minimum maximum clamp from  50% down to 7%, as first start up it leaped to 4,000rpm.

The values for the start-up offset table which can be a maximum of 100, is this rpm or is it a percentage of extra throttle or something completely different.

Another issue I’ve had a couple of times when starting it, the engine seems to start quite well and nicely idle, then as the start of the Enrichment drops down the engine runs all over the place and comes up with the error maximum ignition advance reached but in the same time the mixture is extremely rich. I’ll have to look at the values as it advancing too much and the mix is far too rich. I will try to do a runtime log but I’ve not had the chance to do it could be engine dies after 10-15 seconds.

but progress in the right direction 

 

[Adamw]

Start up offset is how much extra TP% is added, should usually only be values around 1-3% for E-throttle.

Your APS error is most likely due to the APS (sub) 100% setting.  Set up a time plot with both APS sub and main overlaid like pic below, record a slow pedal press from 0-100%.  Look at the value of APS main when the APS sub first reaches 100%, this is your APS (sub) 100% setting.  You currently have it set at 80%, it is normally more like 70% on the Toyotas.  

[Steve Bull]

Thanks yeah, when I originally calibrated  the APS it automatically put that figure in, but now I’ve re-done it like you suggested,  it came out to 60.5% so bit of difference. Hopefully that’s cured that and I won’t see that error pop-up ever again. 
 

The ignition idle control part was causing issues so I just set it to “No” ignition idle control. But things are slowly getting there. One thing I have notice is that the Main fuel Table figures seem to be miles out, even though they’re just the same as what was on the old ECU, along with all the Master fuel settings. I’ve only  done it for tickover and the settings went from 28-30 down to 11.5 and 9.5. Quite a big difference.

[Adamw]

3 hours ago, Steve Bull said:

The ignition idle control part was causing issues so I just set it to “No” ignition idle control.

You will need idle ign control, E-throttle is too slow on its own.  Your main problem is the proportional and Derivative are way to high.  1.00 for proportional and 0.00 for derivative is usually a good starting point.

 

3 hours ago, Steve Bull said:

Main fuel Table figures seem to be miles out, even though they’re just the same as what was on the old ECU, along with all the Master fuel settings. I’ve only  done it for tickover and the settings went from 28-30 down to 11.5 and 9.5. Quite a big difference.

I wouldnt expect it to be much different.  The main differences I see between your two maps is there is a short PW adder and open loop lambda target enabled in the G4X.  But I dont think those would have a big impact.  It would be useful to compare a log of it idling with G4X Vs G4 to see what PW is doing etc.

[Steve Bull]

I’ll look in to it tomorrow. I was looking through the settings on the ignition idle control, they looked mega high. I think it had something like 50° BTDC Max and 30 BTDC min .Like you said are all too extreme, for it to work.
 

Thanks

[Steve Bull]

I’ve looked in to a couple of the logs, one which was done yesterday and  another that was done early in the year. I’ve tried to find a point where the engine was in a similar state,  revs, temperature and AFR . Now everything on the car is the same nothing is been changed other Than the ECU’s.

As you can see the  pulse width is .2 of a millisecond difference between the old ECU and the new ECU.

The two fuel tables are quite different, the G4X has started to pull the fuel and bring it right down,  tickover 1000 rpm it’s gone from 26.3 all the way down to 6.2. Again  at 2000 rpm it’s reduced it by 17.

The only difference I can see  is that with the old ECU I had to use one of the calibration tables which was as exact as I could get it. Going through the figures on the calibration table, I think the AFR is Occasionally out by 0.01 at the very most, so this won’t have much of an effect at all. The new G4 X he’s got his own calibration for the AEM X O2 sensor. Other than that I can’t figure out why it’s reduce the fuel so much. I do have a separate AFR gauge and sensor and on all occasions reads almost identical to what the ECU is seeing.

Without a shadow of doubt the engine is running a lot smoother, the idle is a lot more stable than it ever was. I’ve still got a few more things to do in the car before I can take it out, but from just moving it backwards and forwards it seems better. So I’ve no idea how the old ECU was over fuelling unless the calibration was incorrect, or is the new  ECU under fuelling and doing a leaner burn, I don’t know.

 

 

 

 

[Adamw]

Can you attach the actual log file.

[Steve Bull]

I’m tying to but it won’t let me as file too big

 

[Adamw]

You can share a file using google drive, onedrive, dropbox etc.

[Steve Bull]

See if this works

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k7QZIcL_FtD_BruTEuN_nQBJtjlBup_2/view?usp=drivesdk

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wRwSTTR3GghEhiRO_ccn8RbC8EWOsFUj/view?usp=drivesdk

 

it has stated to add a bit more fuel back into the Map but still well under what it was. 28 went to 6.4 now it’s up to 12.6. Again you can hear/feel the difference and the engine is idling smother, so it’s working what ever it doing.

[Adamw]

nup, links dont have access.  Try right clicking on the files and look at the sharing settings, from memory it needs to be set to something like "anyone with link can edit"

[Steve Bull]

Try those links now the setting have been changed.