Linkecu WireIn Rover Kseries Westfield

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw A customer ask to me for a new WireIn Install on a Rover Kseries 1.8 VHPD (No VVC)  Westfield.

The Rover Kseries have a 36-4-4 tooth crank trigger wheel.

I see on the trigger pattern G4X there is two version of trigger setup for the Rover Kseries.

There is any chance that the G4X work great with the oem trigger wheel or i need to modify them?

Best Regards

 

[Adamw]

As far as I know we support all of the common Rover K-series "MEMS" flywheel patterns.  They are all 36-1-1-1-1 but there are some variations on the placement of the missing teeth - hence the 3 different options in G4X.

There is also a rare 36-1-1 variation and this can be handled with the normal mulitooth/missing mode sine the missing teeth are 180deg opposite each other.  

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw i'm almost done to do the first crank on this engine...

I looking into the trigger mode selection and i have some type of rover k-series trigger mode option :

- Rover Kseries 1L6 (14,3,13,2)

- Rover Kseries 1L6 (4,11,5,12)

- Rover Kseries (14,2,13,2)

To select the correct one, I need a trigger scope ?

I also installed a hall effect camshaft sensor that reads 1 tooth (1 pulse) on the intake camshaft, by selecting a predefined Rover trigger is it possible to associate this cam phase sensor too?

I read in the firmware release note 6.20.17: Made Rover K Series Trigger pattern support the addition of a cam sensor.
So is it possible to use it?

[Vaughan]

A picture of your crank trigger should indicate what pattern you need to use, the numbers relate to the number of teeth between gaps from memory.

To use the cam sync you will need to set Trigger 2 Sync Mode to Cam Pulse 1x.

[Adamw]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

A picture of your crank trigger should indicate what pattern you need to use

I think they are part of the flywheel and not visible in most of these rover engines.  We would be able to confirm what you have from a trigger scope though. 

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw

I managed to do a bit of crank to get the trigger scope, I am attaching it to you so you can tell me if everything is ok. Looking at the trigger scope it seems to me that my Rover trigger system is Rover Kseries 1L6 (14,3,13,2), is that right what I saw?

As for the cam pulse, if I select trigger 2, I do not see the possibility to select 1xpulse as when I select missing multi-tooth systems. I think this happens because I have selected a decoded trigger system .. how can I then tell the ecu that it will have to look at 1 pulse for cam?

TriggerScopeLog.llgx Rev01a.pclx

[Vaughan]

I can see it in mine, after a little bit of poking it looks like the setting was made visible in 6.23 PCLink so I suspect pre 6.23 it just assumed cam pulse and post 6.23 it gives you the option to select cam pulse or cam level. Probably best to download and install the newest PCLink from the website and update your firmware.

Also in your scope you don't have a trigger 2 pulse showing up but we'll come back to that when you have updated the firmware and taken another scope

[Adamw]

2 hours ago, VtrSp1 said:

Looking at the trigger scope it seems to me that my Rover trigger system is Rover Kseries 1L6 (14,3,13,2), is that right what I saw?

Yes, that is the correct mode for the pattern in your scope.  

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw , Camshaft revolution sensor installed in place of the distributor, I am using a Hall effect sensor derived from Honda K20 camshaft. The tone wheel is a simple, single tooth on the intake camshaft
I have run the trigger scope and I am attaching it to you.
I tried to do the synchronization with the timing light and i find at -298 °
However, the trigger scope of the cam phase sensor seems strange to me, the signal is very long, why?

 

[Adamw]

3 hours ago, VtrSp1 said:

However, the trigger scope of the cam phase sensor seems strange to me, the signal is very long, why?

Dont really know, but it looks quite acceptable, at least it is occuring in approximately the same crank position in 2 revolutions.  All the ecu does for "cam pulse 1X" sync mode is check if it saw a cam tooth in the last crank revolution or not, its position or length is generally not important - as long as it is away from the sync tooth which it is in this case.  

The "length" is most likely something to do with the sensitivity or orientation of the sensor - it may be detecting the cam tooth just when it gets near, rather than directly under the sensor.  

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw, I managed to start the car, I performed the calibration with the timing light at 0 ° TDC.
I rotated my camshaft phase sensor holder slightly to space the trigger signal cam by 3 teeth to avoid possible interference.
The car often starts at the first stroke, with a bit of accelerator having the 4 mechanical barrell bodies, but often does not start giving backfires in the exhaust.
I have tried to modify the treshold trigger for the crankshaft sensor, to increase the filtration level or to decrease it but the problem often appears.
When it does not start, however, the trigger errors are not present, 1 trigger error at each start attempt. I am attaching Log with the engine running, log with the engine that does not start, calibration and the scope. Do you have any useful ideas to help me?

 

 

[Adamw]

Your ECU is using firmware 6.22.13 in the logs and map attached above, the "720 sync" functionality was only added to the Rover 14/3/13/2 trigger mode in a later version 6.22.19.  Can you update the ecu firmware to the latest and see if starting is more reliable then.

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw firmware update with the new version but the car don't start or do a exhaust back fire - intake backfire

Any suggestion?

 

PC Datalog - 2022-11-9 3;07;50 pm.llgx Rev01a.pclx

[Adamw]

Have you confirmed ignition timing? (turn fuel off so it doesnt kick back).  Have you tried shifting trigger offset by 360?

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw , After several attempts, the car managed to leave. I connected the Timing Light and checked the timing at 0 ° TDC. If i shifting the offset by 360 ° , the engine don't do any backfire or sign of start.

From a first analysis, the reason why it cannot start immediately is that in cranking, as soon as the engine starts up once, the starter motor cuts out.
Since I am using the engine start function of the Ecu in normal mode, I tried to set it in test mode so as to be able to keep the starter on for longer.
In this condition, the engine gives the first sign of ignition as an explosion, the starter motor slows down and after about 2 seconds of the starter motor the engine starts. How can I try to fix this?

Take a look at the screenshot and log with cranking and start

 

start.llgx

[Adamw]

I think it is still a trigger problem, if you look at battery voltage it is constant in the area where RPM dropped to zero so I think it must still be cranking, just the trigger has lost position so it sets RPM to zero until it re-syncs.  Can you do another trigger scope when it is cranking

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw this is a trigger scope done now with injector connector disconnected and a trigger scope with the engine try to start but stall

 

 

[Adamw]

Ah good, this triggerscope caught the problem thanks.

What is happening is when the engine first fires the crank rapidly increases in speed (obviously normal), but in this case the large increase in speed occurs right where a missing tooth gap is, I have marked some lines on the plot below, the missing tooth gap (pink line) should normally be about twice as long as a normal tooth spacing (green line), but at this point if you compare the length of the gren line to the length of the pink line they are almost the same.

Let me pass this on to the firmware team to see if this can be solved with some adjustments to the trigger code.    

 

[VtrSp1]

@Adamw, yes, that's exactly what happens.  This is a customer car  so if it could be solved it would be great! Let me know if there is any news from the firmware team

[Adamw]

The firmware team did confirm my theory of the rapid crank accel is the cause of the lost engine position.  I will private message you a firmware with a potential fix to test.