kirchoff Posted July 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 Hi Adam any new? i am in a bit hurry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 25, 2022 Report Share Posted July 25, 2022 Sorry, I was working away for a week at the time of your last post, I must have got distracted and I never passed the scope on to the firmware team. I have just done that now. Will update you as soon as I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted July 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2022 thanks! anyway i cant understand why sometimes car runs ok and other no, if i start up the var and it is ok i can run it for hours going perfect, but i stop the engine and start up tagain and it loosed the phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 26, 2022 Report Share Posted July 26, 2022 10 hours ago, kirchoff said: i cant understand why sometimes car runs ok and other no, There are 720 degrees or 2 crank rotations in a 4 stroke engine cycle. The trigger mode you are using currently has no awareness of the cam sensor, it is looking at the flywheel sensor only. Without a cam sensor the ecu does not know whether it is looking at TDC on the first crank rotation or TDC on the 2nd crank rotation. So you will only be achieving correct injector timing by luck of the draw. For some start attempts the ecu will start firing the injectors at the correct time during the intake phase, for other start attempts you will luck out and the injectors will be firing on the wrong crank rotation - 360 deg out of phase. It will still run since the wasted spark means there will still be spark at the correct time - just injection timing will be out so there will likely be serious charge robbing going on. For it to sync reliably the ecu needs to see some unique pattern from the triggers once every 720 deg - the only place that can be created is from the cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted July 28, 2022 Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 I have just sent you a PM with a new PC Link and firmware to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted July 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2022 thanks! i will try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 TriggerScopeLog running fine.llgxhi with TriggerScopeLog running bad.llgxnew firmaware looks that run better, at least it fail less times but still same problem here are new trigger scopes: mini problems.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 I think you need to get that trigger 2 voltage higher, I suspect in the bad running cases it misses the tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 Were those scopes done with the engine cranking or running? If done when running that cam sensor voltage hasnt increased at all. It would almost suggest a wiring issue like it is missing a ground or something. If you unplug the ecu and measure resistance between pin 7 and 9 in the ecu loom plug what do you get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted August 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 both are with car running at idle, i will check resistant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted August 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 hi resistor between pin 7 and 9 jumps a little bit but it is arround 0,6 MOhms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, kirchoff said: hi resistor between pin 7 and 9 jumps a little bit but it is arround 0,6 MOhms Yep that would suggest there is something wrong with wiring or sensor there. Check the resistance directly at the sensor pins also - if you get the same then sensor is open circuit. If something more typical then investigate wiring. Typically a VR sensor like this would be more like 500ohm. Well at least less than 1000ohm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted August 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 car arrive running to garage with oem ecu so i will check wiring oin sensor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted August 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 HI again sensor is connected to pin24 gnd output and to pin 9 trigger, could that make troubles? should i need to use only pin 7 for trigge sensors? resistor between pin 24 and 9 is 1.28 kohms so 1280 ohms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Pin 24 is fine, sorry I was assuming the standard Link loom when I said to measure to pin 7. And yeah 1.3Kohm would likely be correct, higher than what I normally see, but rover was never normal. I would be checking air gap next if it is accessible. if larger than say 0.5mm you could likely trim or grind a bit off the mounting flange so it inserts deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted August 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 hi again i still have problem with fuel distribution, some start up engine run ok other no,when wngine run b ad if i change injection angle i solved until nest start up wherei have to change again injection angle manually. i have lowered cam sensor but still same problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 10, 2022 Report Share Posted August 10, 2022 Can you do a new trigger scope so we can see if the cam sensor signal is now any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirchoff Posted September 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2022 Hello again, Im still working on this engine as there is non solvable problem with random misfiring. I might think that Ive found out possible problem with it . I have tried to sync engine with 180 deg offset to other pair of cylinder to see if there is any change, but after changing fire order there is no change in offset at all. Its same for 1-3-4-2 and 3-4-2-1 (65 deg) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted September 21, 2022 Report Share Posted September 21, 2022 Can you attach the trigger scope so we can confirm that the cam sensor is giving a suitable signal now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro Posted September 2 Report Share Posted September 2 I'm about to setup a MPI mini with a cam and crank triggers, @Adamw did this ever get tested regarding the triggers? Sounds like im gonna have fun with injection timing and making a basemap also... the MPI mini has a 5 wire unipolar stepper motor for idle control also (I don't believe I can control with the link ecu?) I've got the guy to rig up a Bosch 3 wire instead. I know the injector size (around 480cc) but don't know injector offsets. Any hints for creating the basemap or any CRITICAL things I'll need to get right (regarding firing setup, injection window etc) (I don't want to lean out one bank for example) The guy only has one wideband bung, (from memory its on the middle bank of cylinders (2-3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted September 3 Report Share Posted September 3 Not a popular application to give much personal info or experience, but assuming you have a G4X then the trigger is supported. You will need a cam/phase sensor. Wire injector drive 1 & 2 to the single injector in the port that feeds cyl 1&2, and Injector drive 3&4 connected to the injector in the other port. Injection mode sequential, injector timing mode set to start of injection at around 410BTDC would give something like below, the idea being to inject the majority of fuel when only a single intake valve is open. I drew this based on approx 1275 GT valve timing. Injectors will need to be big enough to keep duty cycle below about 20%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 Yes its a MoonsoonX and a mini MPI which has a crank and a cam sensor. (the owner has just let me know he's not running the factory flywheel and has an aftermarket trigger ring on the crank pulley) So ill need to go see how thats setup etc. ohh good to know about wiring 1 and 2 to the single injector. I was just going to use 1 driver for each injector, but you saying software wise its going to be 2 drivers for 1 injector (kinda makes sense I guess) Regarding the valve timing, hmmm this car will have an aftermarket cam with no spec sheet so I guess I ideally need to figure out intake valve open timing (engine is already built and in the car 😕. In your diagram it looks to be 500 BTDC start of injection when injector 1 pulses?, ending at 360 BTDC (at that duty) But are you saying I should go with 410 BTDC as a start? (Found this online, unsure if these numbers are correct though, (as correct as reverse engineering the code/factory map) Rover MEMS Diagnostic and Remapping Notice it has variable injection timing based on RPM and load. Some those 500 numbers look about right vs your diagram, but notice the number range from about 500 around peak torque, up to 635 at idle! Granted thats with the factory MPI cam and engine. Regarding the duty cycle, thats why they use 480cc injectors I assume, but even then shared to 2 cylinders its really only 240cc and then a small window to inject makes it smaller again, kinda only like having 100cc injectors or 480cc @ 20% I can't remember off top my head but is there a CAP we can set on duty, (or just an error code over X duty I see) and I assume the reason is we will be injecting into a closed intake valve if we exceed this duty and the next cylinder will rob that charge, making one cylinder bank rich the other lean. Am I correct about those 5 wire unipolar sensors not supported by link? (or maybe u can wire em up in a way to control em via 4 wire stepper?) (anyways kinda moot as monsoonX doesn't support stepper motor) Thanks Adam, i'll start making the basemap (noting the latest software doesn't appear to have a moonsoon 'sample map' So we open the honda K series moonsoon one (I mean any of them we can make work, just something to note as the other wire in's have a 'sample map') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 5 Report Share Posted September 5 15 hours ago, retro said: I can't remember off top my head but is there a CAP we can set on duty, and I assume the reason is we will be injecting into a closed intake valve if we exceed this duty and the next cylinder will rob that charge. You can't set a cap but you can set the Injector Duty Cycle fault to come on at a lower %. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retro Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 Ahh I think understand the diagram above now, I see cylinder 1 is 410 CRANK degrees BTDC, what's "link injector timing BTDC?" It looks like the injector timing in the software is entered with reference to Crank degrees BTDC? Yeh, I'll just set a fault (ideally it would be an actual CUT while I'm testing but all good) Looks like the only way to get this really dialled in is with injector timing set to table and 2x widebands, one on the inner bank one on the outer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted September 6 Report Share Posted September 6 The injector timing values are BTDC relative to that specific cylinders compression tdc. You can choose to have the specified value be the Start of Injection, End of Injection or Center of Injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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