SADM 06 STI coupled with JDM engine?

[dx4picco]

Hello Link community,

It's been a while I havent come there. my cars have been running fine, on link only some mechanical issues

Now the father has bought a south african 06 STI without engine. We have been looking around to decide what to use for an engine.

When I looked around, I found a JDM engine from the same year (single AVCS 2.0L, one piece intake manifold, mechanical throttle).

From looking around, the SA engine is like EUDM with 2.5L, tgv and ethrottle.

I already tuned his v4 type R on link G4x and told him he should get a link for that as well. WRX107X would be the right model for it, correct?

Now to the thing I am a bit more ignorant about, It seems like ej257 ethrottle (which the car came with) have a 3pin cam position sensor and that JDM 2.0 uses 2 pins (RCM2684 cams for exampke?)
 

will we get any issues fitting the JDM engine in that chassis with the link ecu?

Have a nic day

thank you

 

[Adamw]

Yeah if it originally had 2.5L with DBW then it would likely have the WRX104 or WRX107 ecu (you need to confirm by checking the presence of the A1/2/3 pins as per the note on our webpage below).

 

10 hours ago, dx4picco said:

When I looked around, I found a JDM engine from the same year (single AVCS 2.0L, one piece intake manifold, mechanical throttle).

Yeah that would be what we call a "V7-9" engine and will likely have VR sensors on the cams.  You will just need to change the plugs on the loom.  Generally considered a much better engine than the 2.5.  I dont know these engines well enough to know if the DBW throttle fits onto the V7-9 manifold so there may be changes needed there.  Most of the other wiring that I can think of shouldnt need much work to fit.

[dx4picco]

Thank you adam

I will see how it goes on 

[kaptainballistik]

46 minutes ago, Adamw said:

 

 I dont know these engines well enough to know if the DBW throttle fits onto the V7-9 manifold so there may be changes needed there.  Most of the other wiring that I can think of shouldnt need much work to fit.

The DBW uses M6 bolts where a Cable throttle uses M8 bolts. Multiple options here... Plug and redrill mainifold, add inserts to manifold , weld and redrill manifold, Drill out DBW and change to caphead bolts (Personally haven't tried that) ,  use an adaptor plate. Just be careful about the passages behind the Throttle body face are compatible with the DBW unit.

The 3 piece manifolds can swap over between the 2 and 2.5  motors and are otherwise identical if you want the easy way out. The One piece intake is meant more for all out performance on a group N / Twinscroll Motor and trades off some bottom end power for upper midrange. If the TGV's are annoying, just remove the butterflies.

Just be careful about the CAM sensors, They are the reluctor  2 wire type so there is a little bit of wiring fiddling required ( which you probably already know. Especially if the new motor has the "external" cam Angle sensor AND the In head cam (AVCS) head sensors.

Cheating way to do the swap is to swap the intake cams for a 06 Intake cam if you hate wiring.....  and then all the 06 sensors bolt in!

If the car is like the Australian cars, the big giveaway for a ADM "07" are the Steel front suspension arms AND a R180 diff! . 
 

[dx4picco]

The plan would be to keep the 1 piece manifold if we choose this engine. Good to know what we are heading into, thank you for the light. 

When you say 06 inlet cam, do you mean inlet cam from what model? 

Afaik jdm engine used 2 wires also on the 06, and this engine does seem to have both front and read LH inlet cam angle sensor? 

If I understand correctly what you mean, engine using the 3 wire rear sensor do not have the front one(I never seen this kind of engine) ? And the 3 wire makes both sync and avcs position? 

[kaptainballistik]

Inlet cam from a 06 on WRX/STI is what Will work with the 3 pin Hall effect sensor. These use 3 groves machined into the rear of the cam, where the Earlier "JDM" style Reluctor cams use 3x cast protrusions.

Yep, the "front" external trigger off the intake cam is trigger 2, on the JDM motor you have, and all sensors are the 2 wire type.

And correct, On the 2.5 the LH Intake cam has only one sensor  and this is assigned Trigger 2  ....and does not have the "cam wheel" trigger.

note: not ALL JDM motors that are pre 2007 have Halll effect /3pin sensors on the cams, Externally the giveaway is the longer spark plugs and internally the cams are Hollow. 

All the crank sensors are 2 pin, so that's the easy part....

There is a thread on here about it, I just cant remember which one it was!

 

so... rewire the LH Cam (Bank 2) trigger to be a 2 wire and connect to the Cam Wheel end trigger.

Wire in a New AVCS/Rear cam trigger

Rewire Bank one/Drivers to use the 2 wire.

Make/buy a 8mm thick alloy adaptor for the DBW.

sorted.

Rip skids

[kaptainballistik]

Ok, Its in this thread
 

Same thing you are doing

[dx4picco]

Thank you very much! This one did not pop out during my search

[dx4picco]

@Adamw here is a picture of the ECU

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Kw42Te3zTNoqwGGrJCg9SBW8ZAhqu1GW/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-ufsCvL3-UOCDvLwszt3rKVjhUJ5zhN5/view?usp=sharing

do you confirm WRX107X?

[Adamw]

Yes, you will want the WRX107  for that one.  

[dx4picco]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:44 AM, kaptainballistik said:

Ok, Its in this thread
 

Same thing you are doing

ECU is there, car is apart, engine is there.

I'm looking into adapting the triggers of the ej25 loom for the EJ207 JDM

All sensors are 2 pin. Crank is already wired so that's fine. 

both rear plugs are 3 pin. I'll cut them and put a 2pin plug.

do you confirm this is the right polarity for the AVCS sensors, like adam circled in pink?

how about the front sync sensor, what is the correct polarity? I will add a shielded pair from the sensor to the ECU for that one. 

[Adamw]

Pinout is the same on all the 2 wire sensors.

[dx4picco]

Ok thank you. 

Just to be noted, the exhaust sensor that is 2 pin also, seems to be reversed in the help file/your message in the post I linked from you. I don't have any but it seems to differ from your saying that all are wired the same? 

[Adamw]

The factory manual shows they are all the same.  Pin 2/white wires in this diagram are all grounds.  Pin 2 is the same location on all sensors.  Note the connector sketch down the bottom is shown opposite to ours - subaru draw them looking back into the connector on the loom side.  So this shows the same as my pic above for all cam and crank sensors.

[dx4picco]

 

Sooo I'm on the deep end now 

Engine is in the car. 

Ecu is in the car. 

Ej25 e throttle is mounted on the 1 piece jdm inlet. 

Used the same wiring harness on the ej207 with some mods. 

Wiring wise I put an oil pressure sensor instead of tgv RH

A link 3 bar map instead of tgv LH. 

I removed the starter pin previously on C32. 

I moved my supposed AC request from c23 to c32. 

I then moved my LH avcs cam position sensor to the C23 pin (originally on A21) 

I wired in the cam sync positive side to the now free A21 and the ground+shield to the expansion connector sensor ground. 

 

 

Now to the point where I turn the key and nothing happens 

 

Car was bought as a rolling shell so I never saw it run. 

I checked power at the ECU and no leds were on. I check on power wire B connector I got 1.7V when ignition on. On A connector power I got somehow 0V.

Key off I got 2 ohms between ecu ground and intake manifold. That seems ok. 

When Measuring the same with key on, it somehow raises to 60Ohms?! 

 

My main relay is not ticking (may explains why I got no power to ecu) 

Permanent +12V is there. That's ok. 

Fuel pump relay (green plug next to main relay) is ticking when key on . 

 

Any input on where to look what has gone wrong? 

When I look at my wiring mods, IMO nothing relates to this non power issue? 

 

Do you guys have my06 sti wiring diagram of the car (production date 03/2006, with no pins on a1-2-3 so wrx107X ecu) 

Thanks

[Adamw]

20 hours ago, dx4picco said:

Key off I got 2 ohms between ecu ground and intake manifold. That seems ok. 

0.2ohms would be normal, 2ohms however would indicate a very poor connection somewhere.  

The power supply circuit works like this:

1. Ignition switch signal comes into the ecu on pin B19.  So check this pin has 12V with ign switch on.  
2. The ECU then grounds either pin C23 (4 pin jumper in the 2007 position) or C24 (jumper in 2006 pos).  Check you have ground on one of these.  These pins control the main EFI relay.  
3. The main relay should then engage and supply 12V to pin A7 & B2.  If the main relay is not engaging try the 4 pin jumpers in the alternative position.  

[dx4picco]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

1. The ECU then grounds either pin C23 (4 pin jumper in the 2006 position) or C24 (jumper in 2007 pos).  Check you have ground on one of these.  These pins control the main EFI relay. 

Hi Adam, 

thank you for you reply.

Isn't that exactly the opposite of what is written in the manual? C24 on my06 and C23 on my07?

I did try switching the jumpers around, without success though.

 

[Adamw]

8 hours ago, dx4picco said:

Isn't that exactly the opposite of what is written in the manual? C24 on my06 and C23 on my07?

Yeah I was going off memory.  The important thing to know is that the main relay control pin was moved for different models so there is potential to be controlling the wrong one.   And the change may not be related to 06/07, that is just our guess, it may be something like regional differences, or sometimes pins are moved for factory options such as models with immobalisers etc.  

[dx4picco]

After some check with the available data, I think the C23 pin that I moved to C32 (which is green) is the one to control main relay.

So indeed my06 with different wiring as per the guide.

Its getting late, I'll make the move between C24 and C32 and keep jumpers in My06 position and I hope it will work.

[dx4picco]

So I did what I wrote yesterday, now ecu powers on! all good. unlock went trhough, firmware update too, all good.

Put the map I prepared on it.

No fuel pump running! after a bit of searching, I saw the pins regarding fuel pump can be switched too. So I leave the 2 jumpers on my06 but put the single one to my07, et voilà! fuel pump runs.

a lot of fafing around with e-throttle as its all new to me. calibrations went through all good. then no throttle moving!

struggled about 45 minutes to find that "quite when stalled" thingy.  changed to live and now its working.

I did record few runs of ethrottle, error counter topped at 6, and everything follows nicely.

Sound promising.

I cranked without plugs and oil pressure came after some 20s up to 6 bars. perfect.

rpm was showing too while crnaking! so I guess wiring is good on the cam sync and ecu is happy. didn't need to do a trigger scope.

That's all for tonight.

tomorrow, plug and coil install, fuel line to fuel rail (today was into a bucket).

We are on the right track

[dx4picco]

ok, so engine strated

no alternator or ps pump, no water, no downpipe, so just quickly.

I noticed something. The fuel pump seems to be running all the time key is on with the base map settings (3 speed pwm)

is that a normal thing?

when testing aux 6, driver type low side, active state high pump is running. when active state low, pump stops.

When test off, both active state high and low, the pump do run.

[Adamw]

No it shouldnt run all the time.  Can you show us your settings.  

 

[dx4picco]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kH8a2XUzI94XrmmTYAbxyBWcvVHs8NR5/view?usp=share_link

[dx4picco]

Anything special that shows up regarding the settings I used @Adamw? 

[Adamw]

No the settings look ok.

What confuses me is your comment above that says with Aux6 in test mode, with active state set to low the pump stops (which is correct behavior).  The aux would be outputting a ground with this test setting.  The "Three speed PWM module" mode with active state high would also be outputting a ground when the engine is not running - so why a different result...

Can you do that test again.