Yamaha R6 engine first start up

[RTRT]

Hey everyone

I am trying to start a Yamaha R6 engine for the first time, I've tested all inputs/outputs and they seem to work fine, and i set up the base timing with the timing gun, but the engine is not starting.

My guess is it's not actually injecting fuel, I've been looking around for what could be wrong with my setup, and i saw some videos where ignition and injector auxiliary outputs stay on the active state while cranking, but in my case they just keep bouncing between active and inactive state, could this be the issue?

here is a short screen record for some runtime values on cranking if it helps: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZJ1D_92okdhWBgOsaw8o_Rh90INfEOjS/view?usp=share_link
 

Also attached a trigger scope 2-5---TriggerScopeLog.llgx file along with the RTRT.pclx map

[Vaughan]

Based on a quick look your trigger settings should be more like this

[RTRT]

Thank you for your reply, I will try that when i comeback to the shop. I've attached a photo of the crank sprocket just to confirm if it matches the above settings? and i need to re-do the timing after changing those trigger settings, correct?

[Vaughan]

Yes that is a 24-2 trigger wheel and yes you will need to redo your trigger calibration angle.

[RTRT]

been trying to run it for the past two days with no luck! I set that trigger as suggested and did the base timing again. The trigger err count increases by 2 after each crank, any idea what could be wrong?

Also, for base timing, There is something that makes me feel crazy, when I tried to shift the offset by 360 degree just in case it needed that, the timing light didn't flash, shouldn't it work on either angle? when i put the angle back to original, timing light works again, maybe there is something i don't understand about its functionality? I played around with fuel/ignition tables, sometimes got closer, sometimes just some intake/exhaust backfires or no reaction. @Vaughan Any thoughts?

Attached the current state of the map along with a data log file.

On 5/3/2023 at 6:00 PM, RTRT said:

My guess is it's not actually injecting fuel, I've been looking around for what could be wrong with my setup, and i saw some videos where ignition and injector auxiliary outputs stay on the active state while cranking, but in my case they just keep bouncing between active and inactive state, could this be the issue?

BTW, this was "fixed" by using traditional fuel equation instead of modeled, since i guessed most of the fuel/ignition table numbers.

RTRT.pclx PC Datalog - 2023-05-8 1;45;48 pm.llgx

[Adamw]

Yeah changing the offset shouldnt prevent it from sparking, sometimes if the plug is firing into the cyl at the wrong time, the lack of pressure in there means the spark voltage is lower than normal so the timing light doesnt trigger.  Pull a plug out to visually confirm there is a spark. 

You have something fishy with your wiring though, when you crank many of the 5V sensors read wrong, the MAP goes to 120kpa, TPS jumps up to 10%, gear position voltage changes, ECT and IAT both change a little etc.  So I would suspect possibly a weak ground?  

If it is showing signs of trying to go that would usually mean not enough fuel or not enough advance.  For the fuel, just use the master fuel setting initially, make a big change - like add 50% to see if it makes it better or worse.  To try more advance just add a little to the trigger offset - say 10% to see if it makes it better or worse.  

 

3 hours ago, RTRT said:

BTW, this was "fixed" by using traditional fuel equation instead of modeled, since i guessed most of the fuel/ignition table numbers.

No the active/inactive flashing was because of your incorrect trigger setting, The ecu would have lost position and reset every revolution since it was expecting 24T but there are only 22, it turns off fuel and spark until it resyncs.  

[RTRT]

On 5/9/2023 at 4:43 AM, Adamw said:

Yeah changing the offset shouldnt prevent it from sparking, sometimes if the plug is firing into the cyl at the wrong time, the lack of pressure in there means the spark voltage is lower than normal so the timing light doesnt trigger.  Pull a plug out to visually confirm there is a spark.

yeah It makes sense when it's too far, however looks like something bad happened to the ECU while testing this! since I pulled out coil #1 to confirm the spark while having ignition test enabled for channel #1, I heard the sparks for few seconds and then it just stopped working! Now ignition #1 doesn't work anymore  I contacted the tech support and looks like it may need to be sent out to a regional office to be repaired. Currently I just disconnected ignition #1 and continuing to let it start with the other three coils, I know it's not great but it should still start. Also since I have 8 ignition channels can I temporarily use one of the those instead of channel #1 just until I get to start? and any idea what to check to figure out why trigger count keeps increasing by 2 after each crank?

On 5/9/2023 at 4:43 AM, Adamw said:

If it is showing signs of trying to go that would usually mean not enough fuel or not enough advance.  For the fuel, just use the master fuel setting initially, make a big change - like add 50% to see if it makes it better or worse.  To try more advance just add a little to the trigger offset - say 10% to see if it makes it better or worse.  

Haven't tried this yet but I will do and see if it's going to work.
 

On 5/9/2023 at 4:43 AM, Adamw said:

You have something fishy with your wiring though, when you crank many of the 5V sensors read wrong, the MAP goes to 120kpa, TPS jumps up to 10%, gear position voltage changes, ECT and IAT both change a little etc.  So I would suspect possibly a weak ground? 

Thanks for pointing that out! It was something with my lambda sensors, once I disconnected them the other sensors stabilized again. the lambda's heater ground was connected to the sensors ground which could be an issue, however I just disconnected them for now and I'll come back to them later on.

 

On 5/9/2023 at 4:43 AM, Adamw said:

No the active/inactive flashing was because of your incorrect trigger setting, The ecu would have lost position and reset every revolution since it was expecting 24T but there are only 22, it turns off fuel and spark until it resyncs.  

Thanks for clarifying!

[Adamw]

What do you have for coils/ignitors? 

[RTRT]

4 distributor-less Yamaha YZF-R6 coils if this answers your question?

[Adamw]

So if you havent fitted ignitors to drive the coils then this will be your problem.  Those would be dumb coils that require an ignitor to drive, the ecu ignition drives are only a low current signal and will not drive a dumb coil directly. 

You will either need to fit an external ignitor or change to smart coils with ignitors built in.  The Bosch 0 227 100 211 4 channel ignitor is quite common for bike coils.

 

[RTRT]

Thank you @Adamw! I bought these smart coils and I am going to use them instead of the stock ones. Anything to change in the settings after installing them? and do I connect both pin 2 and pin 4 together with the power ground? Or pin 4 goes to the signal ground?

[Adamw]

Pin 1 & 2 are primary and secondary ground, connect both to the cyl head.  Pin 3 is +12V, Pin 4 is the trigger signal from ecu.