Rover K first start problems (new engine)

[beninnz]

Having issues getting my freshly built engine running for the first time. Previously had the ECU connected with an adapter harness into the factory engine loom with the old engine and managed to get it to start & run (thanks to some help in the forums here after missing the ignition module!).

Engine is Rover K Series, and ecu is G4X Storm X.

New engine now in and with a new loom and engine harness. Some slight differences from when I had it running before - new engine has 288deg cams, individual throttle bodies, and the cylinder head has a cam position sensor on the inlet cam with a VR sensor (original engine had a hall effect sensor on the exhaust cam). It also has a lightweight flywheel which has a different trigger pattern to the old engine. 

I've confirmed timing with a timing light, have tried both 61 deg and -299 deg. When set at 61deg I get a few backfires and it sounds like it wants to start but no dice. I confirmed triggers are working and i'm pretty confident I've set the basics right but quite possible I've missed something really obvious.

Have attached tune, trigger scope, and log. Would love to get this started pre-xmas! 

I've seen one other person on these forums had an issue but not sure if mine is similar or not (couldn't tell by looking at my trigger scope) - their post is here: 

Thanks in advance, Ben.

TriggerScopeLog 2023-12-18 1347.llgx PC Datalog - 2023-12-18 1;43;36 pm.llgx Lotus Elise s2 G4X ITB 1st start.pclx

[Vaughan]

Based on your trigger scope it is losing sync every full cycle and it appears to be related to the rate of change of engine speed. I think it is because the engine suddenly speeds up across the gap which makes the gap look like a regular tooth gap rather than a missing tooth gap.

 

[beninnz]

16 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Based on your trigger scope it is losing sync every full cycle and it appears to be related to the rate of change of engine speed. I think it is because the engine suddenly speeds up across the gap which makes the gap look like a regular tooth gap rather than a missing tooth gap.

 

ok so my hunch might've been right then? If so, are you able to supply the firmware @Adamw talked about in that other thread?

[Vaughan]

16 hours ago, beninnz said:

ok so my hunch might've been right then? If so, are you able to supply the firmware AdamW talked about in that other thread?

That fix was done on a different rover trigger than the one you are using, I will have to talk to some of the engineers and see if we can put a fix in for your particular pattern.

[beninnz]

19 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

That fix was done on a different rover trigger than the one you are using, I will have to talk to some of the engineers and see if we can put a fix in for your particular pattern.

Was his really a different trigger? I’m using 14,3,13,2 like he mentioned in the other post..
Any idea on ETA for a fix if his one won’t work for my config? I’ve got the dyno booked for the week I get back from holidays in Jan so am hoping it’s not a biggie

[Vaughan]

Actually you are correct, the naming in the software was a little different. The changes that were done for that one were later reversed because they caused issues elsewhere, I'll still have to talk to the engineers about coming up with a proper solution. In terms of ETA we have today, tomorrow and Thursday left this year so I'm not sure how timing is going to go in terms of getting it sorted for early Jan

[beninnz]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:52 AM, Vaughan said:

Actually you are correct, the naming in the software was a little different. The changes that were done for that one were later reversed because they caused issues elsewhere, I'll still have to talk to the engineers about coming up with a proper solution. In terms of ETA we have today, tomorrow and Thursday left this year so I'm not sure how timing is going to go in terms of getting it sorted for early Jan

Yeah understand it's not the best time of year  

Could you give me a sense of whether you think this will get prioritised to be fixed though? I work in B2B SaaS product development and there's plenty of small bugs & feature requests across my teams that unfortunately don't get addressed because they don't impact enough people to offset our cost to resolve.

Keen to get a steer as to whether you think my issue here might fall into that camp in which case I can start figuring out a Plan B..

[Vaughan]

It's on my list, best way to make sure it gets looked at properly is to keep reminding me.

[Adamw]

I still have a copy of the original modified firmware so have attached it below if you want to give it a try in the meantime.  As far as I know it worked ok for the other rover.  This will be a 6.23 based firmware so you will lose some of the more recent firmware additions. 

G4xApplication-6.0.1958 Rover Triggers.img

[beninnz]

11 hours ago, Adamw said:

I still have a copy of the original modified firmware so have attached it below if you want to give it a try in the meantime.  As far as I know it worked ok for the other rover.  This will be a 6.23 based firmware so you will lose some of the more recent firmware additions. 

G4xApplication-6.0.1958 Rover Triggers.img 1.5 MB · 2 downloads

It’s alive! 
 

Will be great to get a ‘proper’ fix so I can take advantage of the recent firmware updates & fixes, but for now at least it’s running. What a great early Xmas present:) Thanks team. 

11 hours ago, Adamw said:

I still have a copy of the original modified firmware so have attached it below if you want to give it a try in the meantime.  As far as I know it worked ok for the other rover.  This will be a 6.23 based firmware so you will lose some of the more recent firmware additions. 

G4xApplication-6.0.1958 Rover Triggers.img 1.5 MB · 2 downloads

It’s alive! 
 

Will be great to get a ‘proper’ fix so I can take advantage of the recent firmware updates & fixes, but for now at least it’s running. What a great early Xmas present:) Thanks team. 

[Chrism]

Evening,

I've got an issue that's possibly related, where the engine sometimes starts and runs or fires down the exhaust since I changed it to coil on plug. 

Similar engine set up to the on in this post but uses the exhaust cam with a hall sensor, Cam has a half moon on it. Using K20 coils and k20 cam sensor.

I've tried different trigger modes for trigger 2, Cam pulse 1x and cam level. Both have the same effect, I've tried a trigger offset of 63 and -297 (checked with timing light) starts and runs on both with the same issue. I've also tried rising and falling edge but doesn't change any thing.

I managed to get a trigger scope of the engine when it starts and doesn't. I think that the trigger edge of the cam could be too close to the missing teeth on the flywheel, if that's causing the issue. The engine does has venires on the cams which I have recently retimed (just rebuilt the engine). Only other thing that's changed since I rebuilt the engine is its running coil on plug instead of wasted spark.

I have tried the dev firmware in this post and still has the same issue when starting.

And tips would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris.

 

non start.llgx starts.llgx map 16.0 Startting issues.pclx