ChrisUR Posted January 5 Report Share Posted January 5 Hi, we recently installed a G4X EVO8X into a Mitsubishi Eclipse 2G with an engine swap from 4G63 NA to 4G63T out of a Mitsubishi RVR Hyper Sport R (basically EVO3 / 6bolt engine). After we have converted all the wiring to match the N/A wiring loom to the turbo engine we tried to adjust the trigger offset. When we manually test the ignition outputs (IGN1 and 2 / wasted spark) we have spark on CYL1/4 and CYL 2/3 as it should be. All other pre-start tests have also been carried out succesfully (FP, fuel injectors, TPS, IAT, MAP, BC, etc.) and everything is working fine. But when we start the engine the Trigger 1 is flashing on/off and the RPM is bumping from 230 to zero to 230 to zero etc. Trigger 2 is stable green. In PCLink you can see that the G4X is turning on and off the injectors and ignition, but when we physically check for a spark (spark plug removed and put against ground) no spark occurs, so our ignition timing gun is also not flashing (in order to check the timing marks on the balancer). I set the trigger to EVO1-6 (also tried 7-9 with same result), Pull-Up to ON and Edge to ALL as is it predefined from the EVO1-3 base map. I also played around with the trigger offset but with no change in behaviour. Of course the trigger error count is going up with every on/off of the trigger 1. We then run a trigger scope but it shows a constant signal for both Trigger 1 and 2. All connections to the triggers have been checked (constant 12V voltage, ground and signal wires are all in the correct position and pinout at the ECU). I have attached the trigger scope, a startup log file and the current map, hopefully someone has a suggestion what to look for. Thank you !! Christian unfortunately I have only been able to attach the trigger scope here because the forum says there is a max total size for upload files of 337.61kb ? both log file and map file are larger then this I remember last time I posted a thread here it was possible to upload larger files ? Trigger Scope - 2024-01-5 6;27;03 pm.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisUR Posted January 5 Author Report Share Posted January 5 sorry, just read that there is a total file storage per user and that I need to use an external storage :-) have uploaded it to dropbox now :-) https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/gdhoojzeqqdx6wc1gtv8s/h?rlkey=35vrxpmtf7en8wn3g4smlevef&dl=0 by chance I found an older thread here in the forums from someone who also had issues with the RVR engine: I read through the discussion but wonder if it is possible to get the car running with the sensors installed currently by adjusting the trigger setup or if I also need to physically swap sensors ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisUR Posted January 6 Author Report Share Posted January 6 sorry to comment my own thread again, but meanwhile I did a bit more research and reading and found the following - hopefully someone can verify/approve that my information and conclusions are correct :-) from that other old thread here in the forums I understand that the RVR engine while it is basically the same as EVO3 (besides smaller turbo) it comes with the "newer" style trigger system meaning it has a separate crank and cam trigger like the EVO4-9 engines - the EVO1-3 came with a CAS only at the Cam. While this is good news (separate triggers are always better I think) the RVR engine seems to have a crank trigger sensor which differs from the EVO sensors so it is "inverted" showing high voltage to low voltage (trigger event) - the EVO trigger sensor is from zero to high voltage. Is that correct ? so first thing I could do is buying an EVO trigger sensor like MD320754 so the trigger scope should show the correct behaviour at the crank. then from what I understand people modify their cam trigger from 2 "teeths" (one larger and one smaller) to just 1 teeth (cutting one off) so the ECU knows in which stroke the engine is - but from my understanding this is only necessary when you want to run sequential ignition and injection. In my application I want to stay with the OEM coil pack / wasted spark setup (IGN1 fires Cyl1&4 and IGN2 fires Cyl 2&3). If staying wasted spark will it work with the Cam Trigger as is ? just trying to find out how much work is involved in order to at least get the car running - I'm aware that the ideal solution would be a 12-1 crank trigger like Kiggly Racing and a modified cam trigger and a COP conversion - but that could be done later on when I'm confident that the car is running as it involves a lot of work and money (the engine has to be removed from the car as the new crank trigger requires the balancer delete which requires the oil pump to be removed which requires the oil pan to be removed ...) would be awesome to get some feedback about the above so I know how hard/pricey my route will be :-) Thank you !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 No, the problem is the "cam sensor" signal is inverted on your engine. The crank signal is fine. From memory the RVR has the cam sensor behind one of the cam sprockets doesnt it? - so modifying that is going to be quite a major job? Although removing a tooth from the cam would allow the engine to run using the generic "multitooth" trigger mode, you will lose some resolution by doing that. Our Evo trigger modes use both the rising and falling edges on the crank so you get 4 edges per crank rev - effectively doubling the resolution. Multitooth mode would only see two edges per rev. Can you give me a picture of the RVR cam sensor & wheel, there may be other options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisUR Posted January 7 Author Report Share Posted January 7 ah sorry, of course you are correct, I just looked at the scope again - the trigger 1 has an even signal 0V - 3.66V - 0V but the trigger 2 (cam) starts from 3.66V to zero and up again. So best thing to do would be change the Cam sensor to EVO4-6 (23731W000P) and to make things easier to cut off one of the 2 teeths of the cam sensor trigger. To make it even better a 18-1 Crank Trigger disc (while retaining the stock crank sensor) or a complete 12-1 kit (needs the balancer shaft to be removed) should be installed. I will try to make some pictures for you ! according to the following thread: https://www.lancerregister.com/threads/multi-tooth-trigger-wheels.564178/ it should be possible to remove the cam trigger with the engine being installed. If there would be an easier solution to at least get it running with the current parts (upgrades can be done later if needed) I would be very happy :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 7 Report Share Posted January 7 9 hours ago, ChrisUR said: So best thing to do would be change the Cam sensor to EVO4-6 (23731W000P) and to make things easier to cut off one of the 2 teeths of the cam sensor trigger. If you can change to the evo cam sensor & wheel then you wont need to cut anything. But I thought the RVR engine had the weird cam sensor at the "front" of the engine behind the cam pulley, whereas the evo's have it at the back of the head. If your engine has all the mounting holes and drive for any of the evo type cam sensors or earlier CAS then that would be an easy option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisUR Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 Hi Adam, I did a bit more research and found out what we have installed definitely in the RVR engine :-) it uses a "special" cam gear which has the 2 long teeth normally found at the back of the engine - there is a sensor behind the cam gear. You can see the setup here: the cam sensor looks as follows: https://www.amazon.de/JUNMO-AUTO-MD300102-Crankshaft-Position-Sensor/dp/B0BKS5SCQC the crank sensor seems to be the same as found on all other 4G63 engines: so now the question is can we use the upper sensor for the cam ? maybe modify it to make it from 2 teeth to 1 tooth by cutting one off ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisUR Posted January 9 Author Report Share Posted January 9 after checking the trigger scope again today and compare it to what you wrote in this thread: I checked my crank vs. cam trigger signal to find out if removing one tooth could be the solution for our problem: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ybjnckbu1oznewl0icpnp/Trigger-Scope-Eclipse-GS-T-RVR.jpg?rlkey=j09ug5fpio6h3bnhe41ilgtbf&dl=0 when I did the math correct the long tooth trigger 2 is reasonably enough centered between two falling edges on the trigger 1 (see markings) So when we cut off the shorter tooth at the cam trigger wheel and change configuration from EVO-mode trigger to the following: Multitooth Trigger 1 Type: Optical/Hall Trigger 1 Pull-up: ON Trig 1 Egde: ALL Multi-Tooth Position: Crank Tooth Count: 4 Sync Tooth: 1 Trigger 2 Type: Optical/Hall Trigger 2 Pull-up: ON Trig 2 Edge: Falling Sync Mode: Cam Pulse 1x this should at least enable us to get a constant spark and get the engine running ? before I grind off the cam wheel tooth it would be awesome to have some sort of verification :-) Thank you ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 If you want to remove a tooth from the cam and run multitooth mode then either tooth will be fine. However if you are happy to remove the cam wheel for modification then my suggestion would be to just shorten the longest "tooth" as per my pic below. This would then work with Evo 7-9 trigger mode which would give better resolution than multitooth mode. It is a bit hard to see in this pic but the two teeth are marked with red, we want to shorten the trailing end of the longest tooth so it is about 90deg long (currently it is about 140deg long). What we are trying to achieve is in the scope we want the 2nd trig 2 edge to fall when trig 1 is high. Green trace below is current signal, red would be how it looks after cutting. TTP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisUR Posted January 11 Author Report Share Posted January 11 Hi Adam, as always you are an absolute genius :-) we modified the cam trigger tooth as pictured above and set the trigger mode to EVO7-9 - and the engine starts and runs perfectly ! it was possible to modify the tooth without removing it, just the cam cover and the first cam bearing cap had to be removed, then a small dremel cutting disc did the job ! I think this might be a good solution for everyone else who faces similar problems with the RVR 4G63T because no additional parts need to be used and after you know what to do the job is done in less than 1 hour. Thank you for your support ! cutting the tooth off without removal of the cam gear: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/adwxevntn86sfemmdi3oo/WhatsApp-Image-2024-01-11-at-10.05.11.jpeg?rlkey=wz7yjesayhk5l02gp7gcaz8yx&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/am5e6l845lkp9a4ot47pd/WhatsApp-Image-2024-01-11-at-10.05.11-1.jpeg?rlkey=9cl374er0qi2atmqjzd9yd475&dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ynimahb12bn9no8l6595o/WhatsApp-Image-2024-01-11-at-10.05.11-2.jpeg?rlkey=hcrjeovokhp6o78hh8ciin3ra&dl=0 new trigger scope with EVO7-9 mode and modified tooth: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/1gmywyngazhlz815pzwta/Trigger-Scope-Eclipse-GS-T-EVO7-9-RVR.llgx?rlkey=4af88mzornprgw4uhtwcmb66p&dl=0 new log file (not tuned): https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xg88z91n4earkhg8xhnug/Base-Map-1st-start.llgx?rlkey=dp4k8j03k5suvnvhit5fds7w7&dl=0 koracing and dx4picco 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.