Set up for DFI ignition Holden VN V6 buick 3.8L

[MARK CHAPMAN]

Hi Guys and Gals,

I have wired a G4 storm to a VN 3.8L V6 Commodore.

Just need the settings to put in triggers and ignition main to control DFI.

I wired the 18 tooth to trigger 1 and the 3 tooth to trigger 2 in parallel to the DFI module

I wired the ignition out 1 to DFI est output.

I can't find any info on this type of setup.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark

[Scott]

Hi Mark,

I believe you've been talking to Simon on the phone about this and are making some progress. If you could let the forum know the settings that end up working for you that would be great.

Scott

[Scott]

Hi Mark, 

Apologies that your email was missed, I've checked with Simon and he has now emailed you some info. For reference and other forum users here is the info:

1. Under Ignition main set spark edge to Rising

2. Ignition mode to Distributor

3. Change every cell in the dwell table to 3ms

4. Set Trigger mode to 1 tooth per TDC (if connecting Trig 1 to REF signal on DFI module terminal D) For Trig 2 sync use none.

or Connect Trig 1 to the 18 tooth crank sensor signal and Trig 2 to the cam sensor signal and use Multi-tooth trigger mode and set trig 2 sync to cam pulse 1x

5. Regardless of which trigger mode you use from step 4, the trigger type needs to be set to Opto/Hall with pullups set to OFF.

Note that with this setup when limiting the engine you will have to use Fuel-cut mode as the ignition cut will not work.

Cheers,

Scott

[Scott]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for providing the information

[Patrick Patterson]

I have a holden v6 ecotec, will this also work the same? getting the storm G4X

[Adamw]

I would do it a bit different that quoted above.  Is your engine the later one with a cam sensor or just the two crank sensors? 

 

[Patrick Patterson]

Yes ecotec, 2 cranks and 1 cam sensor. How would you do it instead?

Cheers Patrick.

[Patrick Patterson]

On 2/24/2022 at 10:48 PM, Adamw said:

I would do it a bit different that quoted above.  Is your engine the later one with a cam sensor or just the two crank sensors? 

 

Also have a link extreme G4+

[Adamw]

Note only the VR onwards has a cam sensor, the VN & VP didnt have the cam sensor.

DFI Module pin C - connect to Link Trig 1.

DFI pin F - connect to Trig 2.

DFI pin B (bypass), connect to Link 8V pin.

DFI pin A connect to Link Ign 1.

DFI Pin L to Link pin A7 (Shield/Gnd).

DFI pin P to +12V.

DFI pin K to Ground.

Cam + 2 x crank sensors connected to DFI module pins N, M, J, H, G, as per factory wiring. 

 

ECU settings:

Trig mode Multi tooth.  18 teeth, multitooth postn crank.  Hall/opto, pull-up on.

Trig 2 sync mode Cam pulse 1X.  Hall/opto, pull-up on.

Ignition mode distributor, spark edge falling.  

 

 

[Patrick Patterson]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:20 PM, Adamw said:

Note only the VR onwards has a cam sensor, the VN & VP didnt have the cam sensor.

DFI Module pin C - connect to Link Trig 1.

DFI pin F - connect to Trig 2.

DFI pin B (bypass), connect to Link 8V pin.

DFI pin A connect to Link Ign 1.

DFI Pin L to Link pin A7 (Shield/Gnd).

DFI pin P to +12V.

DFI pin K to Ground.

Cam + 2 x crank sensors connected to DFI module pins N, M, J, H, G, as per factory wiring. 

 

ECU settings:

Trig mode Multi tooth.  18 teeth, multitooth postn crank.  Hall/opto, pull-up on.

Trig 2 sync mode Cam pulse 1X.  Hall/opto, pull-up on.

Ignition mode distributor, spark edge falling.  

 

 

Thanks for that info Adam, what would the tdc off set be set too?

[Adamw]

I dont sorry, I have never touched one with the cam sensor.  You will have to determine offset with a timing light.  

[Patrick Patterson]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, Adamw said:

I dont sorry, I have never touched one with the cam sensor.  You will have to determine offset with a timing light.  

-170 on the trigger off set

 

[Patrick Patterson]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, Adamw said:

I dont sorry, I have never touched one with the cam sensor.  You will have to determine offset with a timing light.  

Hi Adam. 
 

have got this all running. Sometimes the fuel pump primes and stays going. When this happens in the runtime values trig 1 says yes. Give a slight crank and it says no and works perfect. If I wire up the starter motor control through the ecu will that over come this problem as it hasn’t sensed the engine has requested to crank?

[Adamw]

There must be noise coming through on the trigger 1 signal for some reason.  Can you do a trigger scope when this next happens (ie engine not running).

From memory the fuel pump switches on as soon as the trigger 1 sees the first tooth.  Adding a starter signal wont change that behavior.  

[Patrick Patterson]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, Adamw said:

I dont sorry, I have never touched one with the cam sensor.  You will have to determine offset with a timing light.  

Hi Adam. 
 

will do again once I get the heads back on the motor during the week. 

[Patrick Patterson]

On 2/27/2022 at 9:20 PM, Adamw said:

Note only the VR onwards has a cam sensor, the VN & VP didnt have the cam sensor.

DFI Module pin C - connect to Link Trig 1.

DFI pin F - connect to Trig 2.

DFI pin B (bypass), connect to Link 8V pin.

DFI pin A connect to Link Ign 1.

DFI Pin L to Link pin A7 (Shield/Gnd).

DFI pin P to +12V.

DFI pin K to Ground.

Cam + 2 x crank sensors connected to DFI module pins N, M, J, H, G, as per factory wiring. 

 

ECU settings:

Trig mode Multi tooth.  18 teeth, multitooth postn crank.  Hall/opto, pull-up on.

Trig 2 sync mode Cam pulse 1X.  Hall/opto, pull-up on.

Ignition mode distributor, spark edge falling.  

 

 

Hi Adam. 
 

what would you set the dwell time too? I have it all working, but the the ignition will come over the maximum advance. Reading on motecs site they say that if the dwell time is too short the dfi ignores the est signal. Any help would be great. 
 

blown 2 sets of head gaskets from detonation. 
 

cheers patrick. 

Boat.pclr

[Adamw]

I would go with Motec's suggestion for the dwell as below.  It looks like the values they have chosen is to achieve roughly a duty cycle of about 50%.  Note however, if the dwell is too short or the EST signal is lost the module just defaults to bypass mode - this drops timing back to a fixed base value around 10deg.  It shouldnt cause it to advance from its base value.  

[Patrick Patterson]

23 minutes ago, Adamw said:

I would go with Motec's suggestion for the dwell as below.  It looks like the values they have chosen is to achieve roughly a duty cycle of about 50%.  Note however, if the dwell is too short or the EST signal is lost the module just defaults to bypass mode - this drops timing back to a fixed base value around 10deg.  It shouldnt cause it to advance from its base value.  

Ok I will load that on. Just can’t work out why it’s over advancing from the maximum of 28 

[Patrick Patterson]

10 hours ago, Adamw said:

I would go with Motec's suggestion for the dwell as below.  It looks like the values they have chosen is to achieve roughly a duty cycle of about 50%.  Note however, if the dwell is too short or the EST signal is lost the module just defaults to bypass mode - this drops timing back to a fixed base value around 10deg.  It shouldnt cause it to advance from its base value.  

Also, when the Trigger Ref was set, should that have been done with the DFI in bypass mode or not? So with engine idling remove the 8v or est it should in theory show 10BTDC. Cant really think of anything else that cause it to advance, at a guess some points would have been in the 50'sBTDC. if you look at the map file I sent, trig 1 has level 4 filtering, that stopped the fuel pump continuously priming. No idea what to check over next, any thoughts? 

[Adamw]

Base timing should be set with it running in normal mode with ECU controlling timing (ie bypass pin at 8v and est commanding timing).  When you remove the 8V it just fires a spark exactly on the edge of every tooth on the 3 tooth wheel.  So that is purely controlled by the position of the wheel on the crank and from memory that is about 10BTDC.

I see 1 potential problem in your map, the spark duration is set to 3ms, I would drop this to 1ms.  This setting is used for distributor ignition where you have to charge the same coil say 6 times per cycle.  With a distributor at high RPM you often run out of time for both a full spark duration and full dwell, so if the ecu knows the spark duration then it can reduce dwell so both fit in the available time.  So this is potentially shortening your dwell in some cases.  

[Patrick Patterson]

12 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Base timing should be set with it running in normal mode with ECU controlling timing (ie bypass pin at 8v and est commanding timing).  When you remove the 8V it just fires a spark exactly on the edge of every tooth on the 3 tooth wheel.  So that is purely controlled by the position of the wheel on the crank and from memory that is about 10BTDC.

I see 1 potential problem in your map, the spark duration is set to 3ms, I would drop this to 1ms.  This setting is used for distributor ignition where you have to charge the same coil say 6 times per cycle.  With a distributor at high RPM you often run out of time for both a full spark duration and full dwell, so if the ecu knows the spark duration then it can reduce dwell so both fit in the available time.  So this is potentially shortening your dwell in some cases.  

Ok I can change that, but would that cause the issue of it advancing past 28BTDC?

[Adamw]

I cant really come up with any logic that would cause more advance than commanded.  How are you testing this?  How often does it happen?  are you using a timing light with an advance function or just a static one?

[Patrick Patterson]

Testing it with a static test light. Happened most the weekend. I changed the filter on trig 1 and it seemed to stay stable. 

[Adamw]

Is it reporting trigger errors?

[Patrick Patterson]

Not that I saw or remember sorry.