Racelabindustries Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 Good afternoon, I have attached two calibration files along with two log files and two trigger scopes, One being just the base map with the stock trigger wheel and the others with the updated file, trigger pick up and the AEM 24/1 wheel.Link monson with a patch harness built in house( checked wiring about 20 times for the jumper) I should add this isnt our first link set up on a s14 ka24de, Last time we used a s15 pnp For starters car came in non running, with a JWT ecu and the maf wiring wired backwards shoving 12v into the 5v output. after dealing with and diagnosing that the car still ran just had a terrible stumble at idle and would stall when stopping, The customer wanted to upgrade to link any ways so here we are. Im going to add the car with the JWT ecu kept popping up a cas sync issue of some sort( I dont exactly remember the code but we were using nissan consult). This may come into affect later who knows. Lets fast forward to a few days ago, the car has some weird trigger issue where it will only pick up some times and be very inconsistent so we cant even go further to set trigger offsets. See attached logs. We have checked power and ground, Checked power and ground at CAS/DIST while cranking to check for voltage drops. came back 12.8v . We have re wired the trigger 1,2 directly to the ecu Due to the factory harness was extended to wire tuck and we found the factory trigger wiring to be extended with no shielded ground. we even swapped to a aem trigger disc with the same issues arising, Kinda lost here. Pc link and firmware is up to date, Jerry Taylor base map KAT rev2.pclx Jerry Taylor base map KAT rev2.pclx with aem trigger disc.pclx jerry taylor log file with drill.llgx Second time.llgx PC Datalog - 2021-10-30 7;33;39 pm aem disc.llgx TriggerScopeLog 2.llgx TriggerScopeLog aem disc.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 31, 2021 Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 You AEM disc has 24T on the cam, not on the crank. So set trig 1 multitooth position to cam and it should be happy, that is all I see wrong in the AEM scope. In the scope for the 360 disc, Im not convinced the trigger settings were correct when you done the capture as it has done a very low sample rate capture so I cant tell much from that scope. Racelabindustries 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted October 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2021 I will change the settings for the cam and report back. Thank you Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 @Adamw Moved the configuration to the correct spot. Spin the cas with a drill out of the car it now reads perfect, But we once again have a odd issue that non of us has ever seen. As soon as the cas gets installed in the car. And cranking the car with the starter the cas no longer reads, Remove the cas spin it with a drill reads perfect. We have tried grounding the cas while spinning it withy a drill and zero issues still. Only issue is when it hits the cam gear and spins that way??? I have have never seen a issue like this. We also spin the cas with a drill and crank the car at the same time and verify no starter voltage drops ect.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 1, 2021 Report Share Posted November 1, 2021 Do us a log and a trigger scope of if cranking now with the correct settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 @Adamw Here are the logs and the scopes with the dist removed and spinning it with the drill lower rpms, and then dist installed and cranking with no setting changes, engine rpm no longer is picked up with it installed. I also just wanted to say thank you for always helping the community your help means alot to all of us. 24 tooth cranking log.llgx 24 tooth drill.llgx TriggerScopeLog 24 tooth drill.llgx TriggerScopeLog 24 tooth wheel cranking.llgx TriggerScopeLog.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Can you give me a copy of the tune from this last test also. Does the engine crank smoothly or is the battery really flat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Engine cranks pretty smooth, We do have it on a battery charger at 2amps just because as many times we have tried to crank it to get the trigger working. Jerry Taylor base map KAT rev2.pclx with aem trigger disc.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 @Adamw Battery shows 12.8v at most times. while cranking will go down a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Im just going to pass this scope on to the firmware engineers for advice. It looks like it is "timing out" waiting for a tooth to arrive when cranking slower/uneven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 The firmware engineer thinks from where the state changes are occuring in the scope that there are occasionally extra "edges" coming through. You cannot see these in the triggerscope, but the micro will see them. Can you try cranking with the CAS powered with a separate jumper battery or similar (ie disconnect the 12V supply from the car). I thought I remembered you saying you had already done that, but re-reading this post I might have been thinking of another case. Let me know if you have already done this. Do you know anyone with another CAS you can borrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 @Adamw yes we have another in house and have tried that aswell with the same results. Can I send a video on here ? The cas no longer works when the gear hits the cam shaft. As soon as you pull it out it works. Put it back in no longer works. We’ve pulled the gear off the cas. Put it on and spin the cas it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 Send the video to [email protected]. Do the separate battery test too please if you havent already done so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 @Adamw can you clarify what you mean by power it through the can with the battery disconnected ? Do you want a scope that way also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 2, 2021 Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 46 minutes ago, Adamw said: Can you try cranking with the CAS powered with a separate jumper battery or similar (ie disconnect the 12V supply from the car). Sorry, there was a typo, corrected now. So just want the CAS powered from a separate battery, not from its normal power source in the loom. The rest of the car will still be powered by the normal battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 2, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2021 @Adamw Just hooked up the cas directly to a 12v battery source that is separate from the car and absolutely nothing, no trigger scope nor any rpm signal, Hook it back up so its getting power and ground via harness and it works with spinning manually just not with the engine. Im going to add the ground from the cas is directly to the head instead of in the harness. I dont think that will effect anything but im mentioning it. @Adamw Correction now, with the ground still hooked up to the motor, and ground source hooked up to the motor from the out side source and the 12v positive powering the cas it now has a good pick up and no longer drops off i will send a scope and log, The next question is pin 56 that powers the ecu for link and S14 is sharing power from the eccs and cas, How would we go about isolating power this way from the two? Log and scope with 12v positive Log with seperate 12v positive.llgx Scope with seperate 12v positive.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 3, 2021 Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 Ok, well that's a step in the right direction I guess. In your log you are getting very low battery voltage when cranking, I have seen this cause odd behavior with the Nissan CAS's before. Yours drops to 6.2V initially then only recovers to about 8.5V. It should be more like 10.5V min when cranking as a general rule. So I think we should try to fix that before thinking it is something more complicated. Does this car have the 64pin or 76pin header originally? Because pin 56 is nothing to do with power in either ecu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 3, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 @Adamw it’s a 88 pin s14 obd2. I’m gonna let it charge for a bit. Because we have been cranking a lot today. Other than the battery is in the trunk so it has a bit of Tavel and is using 0 gauge wire. I’ll double check grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 3, 2021 Report Share Posted November 3, 2021 I would also try pulling the ECCS relay and drop a bridge wire in its place as a test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 @Adamw sorry for the delay in response, was out of town for a few. We did get the car on the dyno with the same issue with voltage drop, I bridged the eccs relay and still has the same issue. sees 8v while cranking, Bridged the black white wire to 12v power. Moved battery up front instead of in the trunk and it got significantly better, even cranked faster but still has the extreme voltage drop. Added grounds with no help. Car with start with a separate voltage source and once its running you and remove said source and it has zero issue. Car mad 301 to the hubs just has this very odd issue that we can not resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 10, 2021 Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 Does it have a ground cable from battery to starter/engine/gearbox - so its not relying on the chassis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2021 @Adamw yes. Has 2g wire in trunk to chassis. Clean spot. And has 0gauge from chassis to motor underside. 2g power wire from rear to front to alternator. And power wire from alt to fuse box. Someone relocated fuse box to lower front bumper on pass side otherwise I’d run power wire to the fuse box instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted November 11, 2021 Report Share Posted November 11, 2021 8 hours ago, Racelabindustries said: @Adamw yes. I asked if you had a ground cable from the battery to the engine, but from your answer it sounds more like a no than yes. You cant rely on the chassis to pass stater current - it has too much resistance. You need a cable from the battery negative post directly to the engine, gearbox or starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 @Adamw Yes correct i did not have one from the battery to the motor, as ive never had this issue with any other installation. But taking every single piece of advise i did just that even a fresh new battery and a new starter along with running a new ground cable from motor to chassis and battery to motor with no luck, All though via log i just sent it does have a solid 10.85-11.2 while cranking just not enough see the trigger. It still does drop real quick to 7.5 v randomly at first. Battery sees 12.8 v with out cranking and while cranking drops down to 12.2 thats with a volt meter on the battery. PC Datalog - 2021-11-11 7;50;04 pm crank no start, unless seperate battery..llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racelabindustries Posted November 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2021 @Adamw to add to this whole issue, im posting this log from our recent r32 KAT using the s15 pnp with 360 opt, car sees below 10v while cranking and sees zero issues with trigger pick up PC Datalog - 2021-11-11 7;15;33 pm r32 low voltage but still registers triggers.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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