Car will not start! can I get help with a map check?

[r33lew]

I have been trying to start my car for the first time after a 2 year build..

r33 gtr - RB26

I've got spark on all cylinders, injection also. 

I've done a trigger scope and have both cam and crank pulsing although seems to be a bit of fluctuation, not sure if this is normal.

Base timing has been set and mechanical checked.

I'm using a link can lambda, and would like to run closed loop, so i can just do heat cycles pre dyno. i can find the device in the CAN 1 but when i select Lambda 1, in FUEL Link can is not selected, is this right?

Modifications that I feel need to be noted are,

* PRP Crank and Cam Triggers (12-1 NO missing tooth)

* R35 coils

* ASNU 1050cc injectors

R33GTR current.pclx

[JOEL]

24 minutes ago, r33lew said:

I have been trying to start my car for the first time after a 2 year build..

r33 gtr - RB26

I've got spark on all cylinders, injection also. 

I've done a trigger scope and have both cam and crank pulsing although seems to be a bit of fluctuation, not sure if this is normal.

Base timing has been set and mechanical checked.

I'm using a link can lambda, and would like to run closed loop, so i can just do heat cycles pre dyno. i can find the device in the CAN 1 but when i select Lambda 1, in FUEL Link can is not selected, is this right?

Modifications that I feel need to be noted are,

* PRP Crank and Cam Triggers (12-1 NO missing tooth)

* R35 coils

* ASNU 1050cc injectors

R33GTR current.pclx 437.39 kB · 2 downloads

I had a similar problem, but this was after installing an aem 24 tooth cas disc.

Adam told me to add or subtract 360 from the current offset in the trigger calibration section, I subtracted 360 (ended up on -356) and it fired up straight away.

[Adamw]

Check your MAP sensor calibration, when you saved last the map it was reading 160kpa with the engine off, therefore the MAP limit was activated (100% fuel cut). But sometimes that saved snapshot may be wrong as it saves as the voltage fades away when the power was cut to the ECU.   

Since you have changed to modelled mode you will also need to change a few fuel settings to match:

1. Turn off IAT trim.
2. Zero out warmup enrichment.
3. Fuel table will need much larger numbers (now VE).  Highlight the whole table and hit "*2" will get it somewhere close.  Typically you want numbers around 60 at idle and 100-110% at peak torque.
4. Fill the accel cold correction table with 1's.

As per above, you may also be 360 deg out with your offset.  

[r33lew]

33 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Check your MAP sensor calibration, when you saved last the map it was reading 160kpa with the engine off, therefore the MAP limit was activated (100% fuel cut). But sometimes that saved snapshot may be wrong as it saves as the voltage fades away when the power was cut to the ECU.   

Since you have changed to modelled mode you will also need to change a few fuel settings to match:

1. Turn off IAT trim.
2. Zero out warmup enrichment.
3. Fuel table will need much larger numbers (now VE).  Highlight the whole table and hit "*2" will get it somewhere close.  Typically you want numbers around 60 at idle and 100-110% at peak torque.
4. Fill the accel cold correction table with 1's.

As per above, you may also be 360 deg out with your offset.  

Thanks for your reply! The MAP limit was activated every time i try to start it i just didnt know if it was normal or not, i definately didnt know it was a 100% fuel cut.

This is a base map, i was sent by my tuner as a start up file. Will my lambda override the fuel table?

 

I tried 360 deg over and it did the same...

 

Thank you for your help, the map limit issue seems suspect. Is it easy enough to sync the ecu map sensor?

49 minutes ago, JOEL said:

I had a similar problem, but this was after installing an aem 24 tooth cas disc.

Adam told me to add or subtract 360 from the current offset in the trigger calibration section, I subtracted 360 (ended up on -356) and it fired up straight away.

Thanks joel, i did try going from -2° to 358 and it made no difference 

[Adamw]

You will need to change everything I listed.  MAP being the main one.  As per the manual you should have checked MAP matches BAP before starting.  

[r33lew]

6 minutes ago, Adamw said:

You will need to change everything I listed.  MAP being the main one.  As per the manual you should have checked MAP matches BAP before starting.  

I will do everything youve said first thing in the morning, i really hope it sorts it, it seems promising, considering im getting a MAP limit reached everytime i turn the key.

 

 

[r33lew]

Hi adam, tried everything you said except the map calibration, im getting the current map <5kpa or>, ill attach a picture , any idea how i can get around this?

[Adamw]

So did you try it as 4 bar as per this note?

[r33lew]

Forgive me for my stupidity, but i thought that would be an option i select during calibration, is this changed in the an1 menu? Ill take a look noe.

Just now, r33lew said:

Forgive me for my stupidity, but i thought that would be an option i select during calibration, is this changed in the an1 menu? Ill take a look noe.

Also, would you be able to tell if my ecu is 4 or 7 bar from serial number? My ecu is tucked away now.

[r33lew]

So, ive managed to calibrate the sensor with it being set to a 4 bar sensor as it was on 7.. sensor now calibrated and im not getting a map limit activated message now...

Each time i try to start the car, it fires as though its going to start up, but doesnt.. i flip the trigger offset 360 and it doesnt even try..

[essb00]

Your fuel equation mode is set to 'modelled', but the look of your fuel table is as though 'traditional'.

Try putting 50-60 on your 0-1000rpm @TPS 0%, then try to start.

[r33lew]

14 minutes ago, essb00 said:

Your fuel equation mode is set to 'modelled', but the look of your fuel table is as though 'traditional'.

Try putting 50-60 on your 0-1000rpm @TPS 0%, then try to start.

Thank you, i tried x2 on everything as adam suggested 

[r33lew]

UPDATE.

so the car will not start or idle but will definitely fire to the point you would usually let go of the key.

Although after doing that a couple of times it then doesn't...

Until I unplug my injectors and crank it, to which it bangs for a while whilst it burns any un-burnt fuel..

Then I can plug my injectors back in and it will try to fire a couple of times again..

 

it seems to me as though it is getting too much fuel or not enough spark. I'm sure there is something more complicated but on the surface that's what it seems like.

One thing I have thought of after reading what you posted Adam, is I have T'd of my map hose to my factory fitted boost gauge solenoid. is this bad?

I feel so CLOSEE, couldn't of got this far without the help on this forum, I will definitely continue to contribute where possible as I learn.

[essb00]

Try to divide your pre-crank prime table values by 2, then put 0% on first crank prime.

 

Under analog inputs, on 'Lambda 1', select 'Link CAN'.

Under 'Closed Loop Lamba', try the following settings.

 

[Adamw]

Attach a log of it cranking and the most recent tune file.

[r33lew]

26 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Attach a log of it cranking and the most recent tune file.

i will attach my current tune, the only this that might have changed back is the main fuel table, i have also tried (*2) on it all.

forgive me as im new to this but im not 100% on how to do a log, do i just hit record and crank it?

R33GTR NEW.pclx

[Adamw]

Fix the fuel table as I mentioned earlier.  For logging, hit F8 to start recording, do a start attempt, hit F8 again to stop recoding, then go to >logging>save Log file as, then save it somewhere easy to find.  

How sure are you about the ignition timing?  Your offset of -2 is unusual for a PRP trigger kit.  The last one I done the offset was 300.

[r33lew]

27 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Fix the fuel table as I mentioned earlier.  For logging, hit F8 to start recording, do a start attempt, hit F8 again to stop recoding, then go to >logging>save Log file as, then save it somewhere easy to find.  

How sure are you about the ignition timing?  Your offset of -2 is unusual for a PRP trigger kit.  The last one I done the offset was 300.

I'm sure, I set #1 cylinder to TDC compression and set the sensor as close to the trigger as I could, it is now set at full adjustment but keeps it simple for now.

is this log good enough? 2 start attempts

PC Datalog - new.llgx

[Adamw]

Everything looks happy and in the ballpark I would expect in that log.  Just as a test can you try adding say 50% to the engine capacity to see if that changes anything (will effectively give 50% more fuel).  If it were me I would also try a squirt of starter fluid as that is a quick way to confirm if it is a fuel or spark issue.  

[r33lew]

21 hours ago, Adamw said:

Attach a log of it cranking and the most recent tune file.

Tried that adam, still no good, if anything it was worse.

[Adamw]

If there are still no signs of life with the addition of starter fluid then it would suggest there is a spark, timing or compression issue.  

[r33lew]

Adam, I've just been tracing back steps of everything I've done, now, injectors.. I've checked I have an ignition 12v+ on one pin on every injector.

now the other pin, i take it this is a switched earth from the ECU, will this vary in resistance?

I've not ran a test on an injector using pcLink before so i could be doing it completely wrong, but if I activate inject 1 test, across the 2 pins I'm only getting 2.2v

could you please advise / correct my testing methods?

[Ducie54]

1 minute ago, r33lew said:

Adam, I've just been tracing back steps of everything I've done, now, injectors.. I've checked I have an ignition 12v+ on one pin on every injector.

now the other pin, i take it this is a switched earth from the ECU, will this vary in resistance?

I've not ran a test on an injector using pcLink before so i could be doing it completely wrong, but if I activate inject 1 test, across the 2 pins I'm only getting 2.2v

could you please advise / correct my testing methods?

If you run cylinder one test. Check cylinder 1 injector is buzzing. Remove plug and it should stop. Test all like this.

Just make sure cylinders are wired in sequence and NOT in firing order. 

1 to 1

2 to 2

3 to 3 and so on.

 

If u haven't checked ignition I would recommend u do the same. I use a spare spark plug and ground out on the rocker cover. 

[r33lew]

10 minutes ago, Ducie54 said:

If you run cylinder one test. Check cylinder 1 injector is buzzing. Remove plug and it should stop. Test all like this.

Just make sure cylinders are wired in sequence and NOT in firing order. 

1 to 1

2 to 2

3 to 3 and so on.

 

If u haven't checked ignition I would recommend u do the same. I use a spare spark plug and ground out on the rocker cover. 

yep, figured out the test procedure now, I've got 12v+ switch to the injectors, there all on the correct cylinder, same as spark plugs / coils all good spark and on the correct cylinder

[Ducie54]

1 minute ago, r33lew said:

yep, figured out the test procedure now, I've got 12v+ switch to the injectors, there all on the correct cylinder, same as spark plugs / coils all good spark and on the correct cylinder

When u lock the timing at say 10 deg it's roughly showing 10 deg on the balancer?

Also where did u get ur injector dead times from?