alexplicit Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 hey guys, it may be a bit harder to help me then others as i am only just learning! however i have good friends that can help where i cant apply myself so basic run down, evo8 mr, usual bolt ons, and has been tuned to support mods, full throttle and cruise is perfect, just couldnt get the car to start. vipec v44 we have tried taking all the fuel out and the opposite, can not seem to find a happy medium and get he car to start properly car fires almost straight away then dies out ... and will continue to crank if i crank and add throttle, it will start "ok" not perfectly but it will start everytime. i can send my map to anyone who would like to see it. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hi, The best thing for you to do would be to record a PC log and post it here, see VTS Help > i-series user manual > Logging operating procedures > PC Logging if you are unsure how to do this. Then we will be able to see what your engine is doing during starting. Hopefully you have a wideband oxygen sensor on your setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 yep i have a log of it starting, no unfortunately i do not have a wideband i am trying to upload the log file its saying "The extension llg is not allowed" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 there we goNew Compressed (zipped) Folder.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hi, can you please upload your pcl file. I would like to look at your setup. I had a quick look at your warm up log file and noticed that around the 10.9 sec mark your manifold pressure increases to positive pressure, maybe the MAP sensor is not calibrated or selected properly. The engine RPM is 735 at one point with 2.2 % throttle and the MAP is reading 117 Kpa ( almost 3 psi of positive pressure) , strange. At the start of the log with 0 RPM, 0% Throttle position your MAP sensor is reading 139 Kpa (5.66 psi positive pressure). You are also only running 4 degrees of timing at low rpm (cranking speed). Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsh Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 If I remember correctly, there was an issue with firmware V4.8.1 and V4.8.81 regarding stepper motor idle turned on that would cause similar problem like you have with your Evo 8. Car starts and stops right after. Check if you have this firmware. You must also fix your mapsensor calibration as Dave comments. Ben Stian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 thats another issue i am having, i cant calibrate the map sensor. its saying that the difference in BAP and MAP is greater then 5kpa i can get it to calibrate if i select the map sensor to be a 3 bar map sensor, however, it isnt a 3 bar , it is a 5 bar. we thought this might of been our entire problem! attached is the map that was fully working and tuned on my car before upgrade of turbo and injectors. if i paste my fuel and ignition tables and change injectors into the map that i had before, this allows my car to start perfectly. but doesnt seem to drive as well, i havnt got a wideband, so im hesitant to drive like this, i have also tried vice versa, and gone through and copied all of the crank enrichment's over to my new map, and it doesnt seem to help with starting it.New Compressed (zipped) Folder.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsh Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 If you have a newer V44 with a blue LED, it have a 4-bar mapsensor inside you can use. Older have 2,5 bar inside. If you want to use your external 5 bar, you must enter the sensors scaling-values into a free cal table. They who delievered the map-sensor, should be able to get you the scalings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 hmmm interesting, i have seen the vacuum hose coming from the ecu, but im not sure where it goes.... reguardless of the fact, the car would be using the external map sensor for a reason, and i probably prefer to use what is already set up, and i know it works. getting it right is the key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi, in the V44 Analogue volt 5 is the internal MAP sensor, you have assigned this pin as a Pwr Steering switch ?? If you are using an external MAP sensor you need to set Analogue volt 5 to OFF. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 what will happen while its on? is this what is causing me grief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 i think ill need a walkthrough on how to make my own tables for the map sensor too.... im not sure how to check if any of the cal tables are currently being used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi, I am not sure what the ECU would do with Analogue volt 5 set as Pwr steer switch, however I would advise against it and switch it off. I do have an engine simulator for testing, however I only have a V88 at present, not a V44 to load your pcl file into and test the effects of this. Why are you using a 5 bar MAP sensor, are you planning on running huge boost. I personally would check that the internal map sensor hose is plumbed correctly to the engine, Turn off the 5 bar map sensor (Analogue volt 2) and set Analogue volt 5 to MAP SENSOR 2.5 BAR if early model V44 or 4 BAR if current model V44 (with blue LED indicator). Go to the OPTIONS tab in VTS and do a MAP SENSOR calibration. Press F4 and save to the ECU. Then press F2 and save the PCL file as TEST MAP SENSOR CHANGE, that way you still have your original PCL file. I would also strongly recommend that you download the current VTS software ver 4.9.8 and do a firmware upgrade on your ECU. Going by your PCL file the ECU is running 4.3.4 firmware, very old. Also looking at your ECU serial number, your V44 is an early version which should have the 2.5 bar internal map sensor. Let me know how you go. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 OK, so i set the anv5 to map sensor tried both 4 bar and 2.5 bar, both gave extreme unrealistic values, so i found one that was close which was one of the cal tables, the cell only moved left and right, so im assuming that it isnt hooked up to the engine, i will trace it back later today to see exactly where it goes! the 5 bar was already in the car when i bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 also i updated the firmware ages ago i think it will say 4.3.4 on the original map however i have updated the firmware since then. updating the firmware caused me huge issues of resetting all the ANT and ANV error values took me an age to get the values and car up and running again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Kriedeman Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 HI, I have just had another look at both your files and realise that your ECU is a V44 topboard PNP. Is this correct. If so I need to change my advice I have given you, sorry. :oops: Analogue volt 5 is PWR STEERING switch on a PNP V44. When I read your first post it stated ViPEC V44 so I assumed it was a V44 standalone. Please confirm. Regards Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 ahhh im not exactly sure, im going to say it is, i doubt that it would have been set up for nothing if this is the case then what ANV is the onboard map? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 actually, disreguard that, it definately is the PNP v44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 UPDATE!!!! today i got the map sensor calibrated, what i did was, pull the map sensor off tha manifold vac line, ( still plugged in!) and added another vac line to the end of it and logged onto VTS, i then pulled vaccuum, until it was reading zero, it took me 2-3 calibrations, but i got it calibrated perfectly! on another note.... the whole time, when i would fiddle with the maps and change things i would always revert the tune to the tune i knew was safe on high boost, the only problem with this tune, is that it had the start up issues. i recently got my original working map ( the map before the injectors and turbo), and i uploaded it into vts, and changed the injectors to bosch1000h, which is what the injectors are, bam! car starts beautifully, however the fuel maps are different ect.. so i copied the fuel maps over, and the ignition maps over, and the fuel master trim info, car starts perfect, but car barely drives unless i add at least 40% master fuel trim percentage. anyways, the new issue is, if i load my map that i revert back to ( the map that has starting issues, but is tuned for new turbo and injectors ) the car barely runs now, ???? why has this happened! that map has never been modified! and now suddenly doesnt work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK@dentsport Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Because your MAP calibration is different. You don't need to pull a vacuum on the sensor in order to calibrate it....it should be calibrated for atmospheric pressure. You probably need to seek professional help (the kind you pay for) if you want to resolve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 oh ok, that makes sence, yeah its a long wait to get my tuner to do the work unfortunately, so im doing my part, and trying to get as much work as i can done. i know you shouldnt have to, but i did. is there any explanation for this? perhaps an incorrect calibration before hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Most likely cause for the map to be out is the incorrect sensor being selected. For an onboard sensor it will either be a 4bar, 2.5bar or a slim chance of a 7 bar sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexplicit Posted November 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 interesting... well im getting my tune sorted this week the only questions i have remaining are there at one point, i could select 3 bar map sensor from the drop down box, and this would sort out my calibration issue, it would straight away read 100-102 kpa. but obviously the tune would be shit. now, if i select 3bar, it reads about 83kpa! ^ the above question is a little unimportant now, because i pulled vacuum from the sensor as i calibrated it until it was perfect! second question, when i was playing with the maps, i would always revert back to the map that had the starting issues, as i knew it was safe! but now if i load that map, it runs like shit and wont even idle unless i throw asbout 3-5ms of master fuel into it... i even got my tuner to send me that map just incase i over wrote it somewhere, it worked one minute, then next, bam, never worked again... how can something like that just happen. i even tried to wipe the ecu back to factory settings, get another laptop onto it, and load the vts software onto it then upload that map onto it. still didnt run. also be noted, it stopped working before i got the map to calibrate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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