E throttle idle problems

[Valter]

Hi, I´m relatively new to tuning, and I´m having problems with my Evo 3 idle. I´ve just installed a bosch 82mm e throttle and have gotten it to work except for the idle. Dont know what I have to change to get it to idle properly. Now it sits around 3500 rpm with 1% TPS. Dont know if there are some more tables that are adding up. 

 

[koracing]

Can you also provide a datalog?  Your E-throttle is in setup mode on the attached calibration there - and your idle base position is set to 65% where with e-throttle it should maybe be 3% or less.  Your e-throttle target table is a single row and all zero, where typically you'll want APS (accelerator pedal position) on the Y-axis.  Did the e-throttle not calibrate with key on engine off?

[Valter]

24 minutes ago, koracing said:

Can you also provide a datalog?  Your E-throttle is in setup mode on the attached calibration there - and your idle base position is set to 65% where with e-throttle it should maybe be 3% or less.  Your e-throttle target table is a single row and all zero, where typically you'll want APS (accelerator pedal position) on the Y-axis.  Did the e-throttle not calibrate with key on engine off?

Hi, I can provide a datalog tomorrow :).

I have set the idle base position to 3% now and will try that tomorrow, also does it make a difference if I try to make it idle on setup mode or on mode?

I don't know if it matters but I'm using the e-throttle target 2 table and there the Y axis is set to APS. And yes the e-throttle was calibrated with the key on and engine off. 

[koracing]

I missed that you had 2 tables active - which begs the question as to why you have 2 tables active and the first table zeroed out?  I don't know that the idle control will work properly with the e-throttle in setup mode, but I do know that currently if it enters idle mode it will probably be maxing out the throttle position that you have currently set to 8%.  Idle base position is an adder to your throttle target value so you would need to potentially set the idle base position for what makes it idle right, and the target table to zero at zero APS.

[Valter]

12 minutes ago, koracing said:

I missed that you had 2 tables active - which begs the question as to why you have 2 tables active and the first table zeroed out?  I don't know that the idle control will work properly with the e-throttle in setup mode, but I do know that currently if it enters idle mode it will probably be maxing out the throttle position that you have currently set to 8%.  Idle base position is an adder to your throttle target value so you would need to potentially set the idle base position for what makes it idle right, and the target table to zero at zero APS.

Haha, yea good question. Dont know why but when I opened table 1 there was no y-axis. So I just went with table 2 instead to set it up and change it later.  

Okay, that explains a thing or two! I will try that. 

Will get back with the results tomorrow. Thanks

[Adamw]

Your idle actuator is still set to stepper motor so the idle settings would not have applied to the e-throttle.  Your runtimes show the throttle is only sitting at 1% open so if it is running at 3500RPM like that then there must be air coming from somewhere else.

Do you perhaps still have the stepper motor fitted and connected?

[Valter]

9 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Your idle actuator is still set to stepper motor so the idle settings would not have applied to the e-throttle.  Your runtimes show the throttle is only sitting at 1% open so if it is running at 3500RPM like that then there must be air coming from somewhere else.

Do you perhaps still have the stepper motor fitted and connected?

That is true, saw that now. Must have come undone.  

I've vacuum tested the car today and there were no leaks I could find. Will be double-checking it though. And the old idle motor is integrated into the old throttle body.

 

[Adamw]

2 minutes ago, Valter said:

And the old idle motor is integrated into the old throttle body.

If this valve is still open, this will be where the air is coming from. 

Assuming the stepper motor is still electrically connected then try the procedure below, I think this should fully close it.  

1. Switch on ign but do not start.
2. Change all the orange settings in the pic below.
3. Do a store, switch off ignition, wait a few seconds, switch ignition back on.
4. Unplug the stepper motor.
5. Now try starting the engine to confirm that the "air leak" has been fixed.  i.e. it should now need some pedal to get it to idle. 

Let me know if that works and I will give you some better starting settings for the DBW idle.  

 

[Valter]

On 4/4/2023 at 12:24 AM, Adamw said:

If this valve is still open, this will be where the air is coming from. 

Assuming the stepper motor is still electrically connected then try the procedure below, I think this should fully close it.  

1. Switch on ign but do not start.
2. Change all the orange settings in the pic below.
3. Do a store, switch off ignition, wait a few seconds, switch ignition back on.
4. Unplug the stepper motor.
5. Now try starting the engine to confirm that the "air leak" has been fixed.  i.e. it should now need some pedal to get it to idle. 

Let me know if that works and I will give you some better starting settings for the DBW idle.  

 

I can try that! I think the idle stepper motor is out of the equation. The stepper idle motor is on the old throttle body and the new e-throttle is already installed and the old one removed. Will let you know how it goes

 

[Valter]

On 4/3/2023 at 6:38 PM, koracing said:

Can you also provide a datalog?

Now it idles much better!!!! Think the idle base position was the fault. Now the car hunts for idle instead but at much lower rpm. Does anything look unnormal in the log? 

 

Here is another log on the open loop.

 

[Electredge]

1 hour ago, Valter said:

Now it idles much better!!!! Think the idle base position was the fault. Now the car hunts for idle instead but at much lower rpm. Does anything look unnormal in the log? 

DBW IDLE log - 2023-04-4 11;25;50 am.llgx 888.32 kB · 0 downloads

Here is another log on the open loop.

Idle log 2 - 2023-04-4 11;33;00 am.llgx 1.87 MB · 1 download

pretty sure over run cut is activating, post your current tune file

[Valter]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:04 PM, Electredge said:

pretty sure over run cut is activating, post your current tune file

Here is my current tune. 

 

[Electredge]

3 minutes ago, Valter said:

Here is my current tune. 

idle okej.pclx 473.46 kB · 0 downloads

do you have pedal wired up? if so where is APS 1 and APS 2 pinned to at the ecu?

[Adamw]

I was just typing the same thing.  The throttle is not even working in either of your logs, you dont have any APS sensors assigned.  The throttle is disabled and the ecu is applying a limiter for safety.   

 

[Electredge]

@Adamw  I'm quick this morning

 

You need to setup pedal position but this map should have you much closer once you do setup pedal and calibrate it.

idle okej - link forum evo.pclx

[Valter]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:28 PM, Electredge said:

@Adamw  I'm quick this morning

 

You need to setup pedal position but this map should have you much closer once you do setup pedal and calibrate it.idle okej - link forum evo.pclx 473.59 kB · 1 download

I have them assigned to an 10 and 11. The voltage fluctuates when I press the pedal and I have calibrated them against the pedal. If thats what you guys are asking  I will try with that map and see what happens 

 

[Electredge]

2 minutes ago, Valter said:

I have them assigned to an 10 and 11. The voltage fluctuates when I press the pedal and I have calibrated them against the pedal. If thats what you guys are asking  I will try with that map and see what happens 

in the map you posted accelerator position sensor shows none and none for assigned pins. I've adjusted the map I sent but you need to do the calibration and then set ethrottle mode to ON from current setup mode.  then post a new log

idle okej - link forum evo.pclx

[Valter]

ahhh sorry now i see, will fix that

 

Now it sits around 3-4k rpm 

 

[Electredge]

7 minutes ago, Valter said:

ahhh sorry now i see, will fix that

 

Now it sits around 3-4k rpm 

DBW idle 3.1- 2023-04-4 1;41;14 pm.llgx 660.56 kB · 0 downloads

try this, and post the map with the log after you have recalibrated pedal and turn ethrottle back on after setting up pedal.

idle okej - link forum evo 2.pclx

[Valter]

On 4/4/2023 at 1:50 PM, Electredge said:

try this, and post the map with the log after you have recalibrated pedal and turn ethrottle back on after setting up pedal.

idle okej - link forum evo 2.pclx 473.6 kB · 0 downloads

Here they are. 

 

[Electredge]

7 minutes ago, Valter said:

Here they are. 

Idle test 1.pclx 473.61 kB · 0 downloads idle test log 1.llgx 605.2 kB · 0 downloads

 

Idle test 2.pclx

[Valter]

On 4/4/2023 at 2:06 PM, Electredge said:

 

Idle test 2.pclx 473.61 kB · 0 downloads

It´s getting better Thanks for the help btw. 

 

Are you only changing the idle base position table now? Or something else? 

[Electredge]

4 minutes ago, Valter said:

It´s getting better Thanks for the help btw. 

Idle test log 2.llgx 821.44 kB · 1 download

I'm quite sure you have a vacuum leak, no way it idles at 3000rpm with tps at .5

[Valter]

13 minutes ago, Electredge said:

I'm quite sure you have a vacuum leak, no way it idles at 3000rpm with tps at .5

found several small leaks now will fix those and return to you guys  

[koracing]

I LOL'ed at the idle actuator being attached to the original throttle body and then tuning advice being given assuming it was somehow also attached to the engine along with the DBW throttle body.  Looks like things are moving in the right direction. 

If you can't find a leak anywhere else, completely block off the throttle opening (with a piece of wood or cardboard or something) and see if the motor still runs or if it stalls.  I will use carb-cleaner or starting fluid and spray around injectors and manifold gasket connections and listen for changes in the motor to find vacuum leaks.  Of course you have to be careful where you're spraying flammable fluid on a running motor (like near an alternator or battery connection).  A smoke tester if available can help find these leaks also and possibly in a safer way.